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I imagine the reason he got modded to oblivion was that he made an extraordinary claim "...I think it's important to point out that poverty and homelessness are

I imagine the reason he got modded to oblivion was that he made an extraordinary claim "...I think it's important to point out that poverty and homelessness are symptoms of capitalism, which is the real problem" with no attempt at justification. Besides which, capitalism is not a form of government. So he started from a position of error and then went out on his limb from there.

jacquesm 16y ago
So, you point that out. Downmodding for being wrong is ridiculous.
- dschobel 16y ago
  I did point it out and I didn't down-vote him (because I was hoping he would expound on it). But you know that voting means different things to different people (and HN has gone on vast navel-gazing tangents trying to define it). If people see a controversial position half-heartedly argued, the bad marks should not come as a shock nor am I sure they are unreasonable. In the end though, the points are utterly irrelevant as long as it doesn't dissuade others from taking controversial positions and, crucially, defending them.
duairc 16y ago
It was an extraordinary claim (given the demographic here) and I made no attempt to justify it, so I can see why it was modded so harshly. I think the modding was a bit extreme, but I knew when I was making the post that it was going to be a -4 type of thing. However, I don't think question of whether or not capitalism is a form of government has anything to do with the point I was making.
- gloob 16y ago
  Meant to upvote you and fat-fingered it, sorry.
steveklabnik 16y ago
> Besides which, capitalism is not a form of government. But he also didn't say anything about government. He said it was capitalism.
- dschobel 16y ago
  Right, but this can be trivially shown to be false in the case of capitalistic systems with minimal levels of homelessness and poverty and socialist economies with rampant poverty.
  - steveklabnik 16y ago
    I wouldn't say trivial. It's not like most economies are purely one or the other. And to be fair to his argument, he's talking about stateless socialism.

jacquesm 16y ago

So, you point that out. Downmodding for being wrong is ridiculous.

dschobel 16y ago
I did point it out and I didn't down-vote him (because I was hoping he would expound on it). But you know that voting means different things to different people (and HN has gone on vast navel-gazing tangents trying to define it). If people see a controversial position half-heartedly argued, the bad marks should not come as a shock nor am I sure they are unreasonable. In the end though, the points are utterly irrelevant as long as it doesn't dissuade others from taking controversial positions and, crucially, defending them.

duairc 16y ago

It was an extraordinary claim (given the demographic here) and I made no attempt to justify it, so I can see why it was modded so harshly. I think the modding was a bit extreme, but I knew when I was making the post that it was going to be a -4 type of thing. However, I don't think question of whether or not capitalism is a form of government has anything to do with the point I was making.

gloob 16y ago
Meant to upvote you and fat-fingered it, sorry.

steveklabnik 16y ago

> Besides which, capitalism is not a form of government. But he also didn't say anything about government. He said it was capitalism.

dschobel 16y ago
Right, but this can be trivially shown to be false in the case of capitalistic systems with minimal levels of homelessness and poverty and socialist economies with rampant poverty.
- steveklabnik 16y ago
  I wouldn't say trivial. It's not like most economies are purely one or the other. And to be fair to his argument, he's talking about stateless socialism.