3 ms·

Just to play devils advocate on this, this isn't very free market. How is this not clearly choosing winners and losers? What about the plastic bag producing com

Just to play devils advocate on this, this isn't very free market. How is this not clearly choosing winners and losers? What about the plastic bag producing companies and their shareholders? The government is choosing multi-use bag makers over single use bag makers. I feel like this is "common sense" enough that people don't fight it, but if it is a more complex (and more important) issue like climate change and banning polluting power sources, it all the sudden becomes an ideological and philosophical issue and we have to just wait until the economics are just right to see whether we'll survive or not. Why can't we treat polluting our air and water in the same way? Just because we don't have to see the pollution blowing around the roadway we aren't going to worry about it?

okreallywtf 9y ago
I'm curious why I'm getting downvoted for this, it seems to be a pretty clear comparison to me.
viggity 9y ago
what is the environmental cost of staying in the hospital? Coliform bacteria are found in half of reusable bags and E. Coli are found in 12%. Reusable bags weigh 40-50 grams, one time use bags are 6 grams. I'm for finding bio-degradable plastic replacements, not because they take up landfill space (who cares, landfills are very safe), but more for the bags/plastics that don't find their way to the landfill.
- okreallywtf 9y ago
  Good point. I don't think those issues cannot be resolved though, but it is one of those things that might not be as cut and dried as it seems. I wonder if biodegradable or recyclable bags made of paper or something else are the best of both worlds? There are likely to be longer term positive effects of banning plastic bags as well though. Plastic bags don't biodegrade, but they do seem to break up into little bits and can make it into the food supply through fish and maybe other animals. I have a hard time believing that plastic bags as they are are an actual good solution to the problem of needing to get food to your house. To me, the ideal solution to plastic bags is the same as the solution to most environmental problems: correctly account for the cost of the environmental damage and add that to the cost of the product (the company can chose to eat it or pass it on to the customer). I know that correctly calculating the cost is probably tricky but still. That would fix a lot of our environmental issues. Gas and coal are only cheap when we don't factor air quality into the equation.
- SllX 9y ago
  I have a few cloth bags I cycle through. A few small ones that I carry around in my pocket, and a few larger ones that I use if I need to make a large run to the supermarket, which honestly is pretty rare nowadays because I tend to just pickup a few items at a time as needed. Every week, whatever bags I've used get thrown in with the rest of the laundry that I would still be doing anyway, and they don't push my loads so high that I find myself doing more laundry than I otherwise would. One time use bags get maybe two or three uses tops whether paper or plastic, but I've been using the same cloth bags for about 10 years, and I'll probably still be using the same set of bags or close to it in 10 more years. Maybe by then I'll be married to someone that knows her way around a sewing needle and/or machine to deal with any potential wear and tear. So I don't know mate, what's the environmental cost of tossing your bags in the laundry with the rest? It's not nothing, but its probably better than the mass manufacturing, shipping, distributing, disposing of and/or recycling (in a best case scenario) of "one-time" use bags, and certainly better than staying in the hospital because you don't bother to wash your bags.

okreallywtf 9y ago

I'm curious why I'm getting downvoted for this, it seems to be a pretty clear comparison to me.

viggity 9y ago

what is the environmental cost of staying in the hospital? Coliform bacteria are found in half of reusable bags and E. Coli are found in 12%. Reusable bags weigh 40-50 grams, one time use bags are 6 grams. I'm for finding bio-degradable plastic replacements, not because they take up landfill space (who cares, landfills are very safe), but more for the bags/plastics that don't find their way to the landfill.

okreallywtf 9y ago
Good point. I don't think those issues cannot be resolved though, but it is one of those things that might not be as cut and dried as it seems. I wonder if biodegradable or recyclable bags made of paper or something else are the best of both worlds? There are likely to be longer term positive effects of banning plastic bags as well though. Plastic bags don't biodegrade, but they do seem to break up into little bits and can make it into the food supply through fish and maybe other animals. I have a hard time believing that plastic bags as they are are an actual good solution to the problem of needing to get food to your house. To me, the ideal solution to plastic bags is the same as the solution to most environmental problems: correctly account for the cost of the environmental damage and add that to the cost of the product (the company can chose to eat it or pass it on to the customer). I know that correctly calculating the cost is probably tricky but still. That would fix a lot of our environmental issues. Gas and coal are only cheap when we don't factor air quality into the equation.
SllX 9y ago
I have a few cloth bags I cycle through. A few small ones that I carry around in my pocket, and a few larger ones that I use if I need to make a large run to the supermarket, which honestly is pretty rare nowadays because I tend to just pickup a few items at a time as needed. Every week, whatever bags I've used get thrown in with the rest of the laundry that I would still be doing anyway, and they don't push my loads so high that I find myself doing more laundry than I otherwise would. One time use bags get maybe two or three uses tops whether paper or plastic, but I've been using the same cloth bags for about 10 years, and I'll probably still be using the same set of bags or close to it in 10 more years. Maybe by then I'll be married to someone that knows her way around a sewing needle and/or machine to deal with any potential wear and tear. So I don't know mate, what's the environmental cost of tossing your bags in the laundry with the rest? It's not nothing, but its probably better than the mass manufacturing, shipping, distributing, disposing of and/or recycling (in a best case scenario) of "one-time" use bags, and certainly better than staying in the hospital because you don't bother to wash your bags.