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This is fascinating for me to read as a person who is rather convinced that trendiness tends to overwhelm reason in much of wellness practices. But I happened

This is fascinating for me to read as a person who is rather convinced that trendiness tends to overwhelm reason in much of wellness practices. But I happened to try an elective iv clinic on Sunday — after a hard workout and long night the previous day — https://www.onusiv.com https://www.onusiv.com. I’ve never had an iv before — but the experience was genuinely awesome — muscle pain decreased, I felt lighter and energized, and my mood improved dramatically. It’s funny to read about how iv’s aren’t useful so quickly after having used one for the first time and been genuinely persuaded that it was effective ...

masklinn 9y ago
The article isn't about IV being ineffective, rehydration IV are absolutely effective. The article is about them being unnecessary unless absolutely humongous amounts of rehydration are necessary (emergency rehydration), "modern" oral rehydration is amply sufficient, cheaper, simpler, and less risky (ORS requires clean water but IV requires aseptic fluid and procedure and even then there's a risk of infection).
- J_Sherz 9y ago
  Perfect answer, relevant link for those that are interested: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC419333/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC419333/
  - masklinn 9y ago
    ORT is even recommended for cholera (to upgrade to IV on a case-by-case basis if necessary), that's about as bad as things can get dehydration wise.
    - girzel 9y ago
      One of the most amazing disease-related things I've ever read was something about cholera (of course I will never remember the original source), and the fact that it doesn't have to be fatal at all, so long as you rehydrate properly. Apparently in the vast majority of cases the body will fight off cholera just fine, so long as it doesn't run out of fluids in the meantime. If only people had known that they couldn't just drink plain water... The (possibly apocryphal) article also went into modern educational efforts in rural India, where people were being taught the proper handfuls of sugar and salt to add to water, to combat cholera there.
- breatheoften 9y ago
  Thank you for this. The use of 'unnecessary' is super interesting to me and makes me empathize with the spectrum of problem's Dr.'s must have in deciding treatment plans ... I feel that arguing convincingly about the lack of necessity of a given effective technique would make for an incredibly hard communication/decision-making problem ... Also interesting, the presence or absence of necessity was not at all a factor in my usage. I elected to pay a bunch of money for what was certainly an 'unnecessary' use of an I.V. with a goal of enhancing well-being/accelerating recovery time. In the context of opt-in usage: not in a hospital full of sick people and disease, where provider can simply refuse to offer any service to patients if risk factors are present, with ability to pay premium market-based prices for supplies/storage since its an upscale opt-in product ... I would imagine the actual complication rate from such opt-in usages are likely to be lower than would result from unnecessary uses in a hospital environment... (Or perhaps this line of reasoning is simply me trying to rationalize this unnecessary behavior to myself -- regardless of the lack of necessity in a hospital setting, I still think I might opt-in to this treatment again from time to time ...)
  - masklinn 9y ago
    > Also interesting, the presence or absence of necessity was not at all a factor in my usage. I elected to pay a bunch of money for what was certainly an 'unnecessary' use of an I.V. with a goal of enhancing well-being/accelerating recovery time. When I commented about unnecessary, I wasn't commenting about the goal but the means. You get the same benefits from ORT as you get from IV rehydration[0], at lower risk, and lower cost. > In the context of opt-in usage: not in a hospital full of sick people and disease, where provider can simply refuse to offer any service to patients if risk factors are present, with ability to pay premium market-based prices for supplies/storage since its an upscale opt-in product … Also not in a hospital full of professionals used to aseptic procedures and products. > I would imagine the actual complication rate from such opt-in usages are likely to be lower than would result from unnecessary uses in a hospital environment… I would imagine the opposite. > I still think I might opt-in to this treatment again from time to time … Or you could use regular ORT and get the same benefits. But it's your health and money so you do you. [0] again unless it's a case of emergency rehydration, or the patient is unable to drink, obviously
amluto 9y ago
shudder In Taiwan, it used to be a thing to get vitamin B shots all the time for no good reason. The placebo affect was probably involved. It turns out that the vitamins were almost certainly useless, but some 90% of the population got Hepatitis B. Guess who didn't sterilize everything properly? I would stay the fuck away from quacks who want to inject magic solutions. At least the detox crowd just drinks that stuff. Also, jeez, for the cost of one of those infusions, you can drink a lot of delicious, potassium-loaded fresh coconut water, even at restaurant prices.
- gasgasgas 9y ago
  Patients insist on IV despite doctors not agreeing. Even injectables!
shkkmo 9y ago
The point of the article is that next time, just drink your rehydration fluid orally and save yourself the money. Unless you are vomiting, unconscious or potentially going into surgery, using an IV to administer the fluid is unnecessary.

masklinn 9y ago

The article isn't about IV being ineffective, rehydration IV are absolutely effective. The article is about them being unnecessary unless absolutely humongous amounts of rehydration are necessary (emergency rehydration), "modern" oral rehydration is amply sufficient, cheaper, simpler, and less risky (ORS requires clean water but IV requires aseptic fluid and procedure and even then there's a risk of infection).

J_Sherz 9y ago
Perfect answer, relevant link for those that are interested: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC419333/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC419333/
- masklinn 9y ago
  ORT is even recommended for cholera (to upgrade to IV on a case-by-case basis if necessary), that's about as bad as things can get dehydration wise.
  - girzel 9y ago
    One of the most amazing disease-related things I've ever read was something about cholera (of course I will never remember the original source), and the fact that it doesn't have to be fatal at all, so long as you rehydrate properly. Apparently in the vast majority of cases the body will fight off cholera just fine, so long as it doesn't run out of fluids in the meantime. If only people had known that they couldn't just drink plain water... The (possibly apocryphal) article also went into modern educational efforts in rural India, where people were being taught the proper handfuls of sugar and salt to add to water, to combat cholera there.
breatheoften 9y ago
Thank you for this. The use of 'unnecessary' is super interesting to me and makes me empathize with the spectrum of problem's Dr.'s must have in deciding treatment plans ... I feel that arguing convincingly about the lack of necessity of a given effective technique would make for an incredibly hard communication/decision-making problem ... Also interesting, the presence or absence of necessity was not at all a factor in my usage. I elected to pay a bunch of money for what was certainly an 'unnecessary' use of an I.V. with a goal of enhancing well-being/accelerating recovery time. In the context of opt-in usage: not in a hospital full of sick people and disease, where provider can simply refuse to offer any service to patients if risk factors are present, with ability to pay premium market-based prices for supplies/storage since its an upscale opt-in product ... I would imagine the actual complication rate from such opt-in usages are likely to be lower than would result from unnecessary uses in a hospital environment... (Or perhaps this line of reasoning is simply me trying to rationalize this unnecessary behavior to myself -- regardless of the lack of necessity in a hospital setting, I still think I might opt-in to this treatment again from time to time ...)
- masklinn 9y ago
  > Also interesting, the presence or absence of necessity was not at all a factor in my usage. I elected to pay a bunch of money for what was certainly an 'unnecessary' use of an I.V. with a goal of enhancing well-being/accelerating recovery time. When I commented about unnecessary, I wasn't commenting about the goal but the means. You get the same benefits from ORT as you get from IV rehydration[0], at lower risk, and lower cost. > In the context of opt-in usage: not in a hospital full of sick people and disease, where provider can simply refuse to offer any service to patients if risk factors are present, with ability to pay premium market-based prices for supplies/storage since its an upscale opt-in product … Also not in a hospital full of professionals used to aseptic procedures and products. > I would imagine the actual complication rate from such opt-in usages are likely to be lower than would result from unnecessary uses in a hospital environment… I would imagine the opposite. > I still think I might opt-in to this treatment again from time to time … Or you could use regular ORT and get the same benefits. But it's your health and money so you do you. [0] again unless it's a case of emergency rehydration, or the patient is unable to drink, obviously

amluto 9y ago

shudder In Taiwan, it used to be a thing to get vitamin B shots all the time for no good reason. The placebo affect was probably involved. It turns out that the vitamins were almost certainly useless, but some 90% of the population got Hepatitis B. Guess who didn't sterilize everything properly? I would stay the fuck away from quacks who want to inject magic solutions. At least the detox crowd just drinks that stuff. Also, jeez, for the cost of one of those infusions, you can drink a lot of delicious, potassium-loaded fresh coconut water, even at restaurant prices.

gasgasgas 9y ago
Patients insist on IV despite doctors not agreeing. Even injectables!

shkkmo 9y ago

The point of the article is that next time, just drink your rehydration fluid orally and save yourself the money. Unless you are vomiting, unconscious or potentially going into surgery, using an IV to administer the fluid is unnecessary.