5 ms·

Why do you need to work 50-60 hours a week? I know my teachers in HS in Ontario were only scheduled for 4 hours of instruction a day. Are American teachers sche

by aianus 9y ago

Why do you need to work 50-60 hours a week? I know my teachers in HS in Ontario were only scheduled for 4 hours of instruction a day. Are American teachers scheduled for more instruction? How much do grading, lesson planning, and extracurriculars contribute to that figure? 8 hours every working day seems kind of excessive; I graded well over a hundred assignments a week in college as a TA in 10 hours flat. It certainly seemed to me to be a very cushy job at the time but I'd love to hear your perspective.

iak8god 9y ago
Is this supposed to be some kind of joke, or do you really imagine that lesson planning and grading alone for 4 daily hours of classroom instruction would take less than an additional 4 hours?
- aianus 9y ago
  Not the first time you do it, but by the third, fourth, year in a row, I imagine you would be reusing the lesson plans, assignments, and tests. I know for a fact that’s what my HS math teacher did because we got ahold of the old tests and assignments a couple of times and they were almost identical. Side note: I’m making him sound like a lazy slacker but he was the best teacher I’ve ever had in my life. He taught so much so well that I had perfect grades and didn’t learn any new math in university for the first 6 months.
germinalphrase 9y ago
I upvoted you. Thank you for the question. Well - I'm American. It's anecdotal - I know - but I have two good Canadian friends who teach in the Northwest Territories. They each (individually) make 2x my wage, have better benefits, more PTO, and work demands that are significantly narrower in scope. There are entire parts of my job that are simply "not their problem". They have - only half in jest - offered to sponsor my immigration. Not to belittle what was - I'm sure - a demanding TA job, but the educational mission at the k12 level is explicitly different from that of a higher education instructor. Most simply, in a higher education setting the learning is the student's problem while in a k12 setting the learning is - increasingly - the teacher's problem. For example, what kind of conversation would happen between administration and the high ed. instructor if they had a student that only showed up to class 50% of the time, was always stoned, and inevitably failed the class? There wouldn't be one. The student chose to fail. When I have a student who only shows up half the time, is always stoned, and fails because they won't do work - well - I get asked this question: what are you doing right now to help this child succeed? Fair question. Here's the wrong answer: I maintain a positive relationship and attempt to integrate him into the class - but, really, I barely know him. He only shows up to class half the time, is always stoned, and refuses to do any work. The correct answer: These are his discrete skills proficiencies and how I assessed them despite his apathy. These are his discrete skill gaps and the curricular interventions I have attempted to implement with him. This is how he interacts socially. This is what I know about his friend group. Here is what I have learned about his family situation. Here are my documented contacts home, to his councilor, to his social worker, and to his coach. There is intense pressure to prevent students from failing. It's now becoming apparent that schools are fraudulently passing students who have not met minimum graduation requirements [0]. Even if they're not - teachers are coming under increasing pressure to "find ways" to individually intervene on the behalf of students. It's a laudable goal with good intentions. Now, I have 29-35 students in each of my 5 classes for a total of 163 students this semester. Keeping in mind that the expectation is not only that I know 163 students by name - but that I am able to know their individual skills strengths/weaknesses, social entanglements, home life & problems, etc. so that I can adequately serve them. It then becomes a numbers game. Of my 40 hrs per week, I am actively teaching for ~33. If I assign one piece of writing per week which takes five minutes to assess I am already at 13.5 hours of work in addition to my instructional time. Now, I don't just assign one assignment per week, nor do I teach out of a textbook. A good lesson can require 1-3 hours to write and maybe another 30 minutes to create an assessment for that lesson (as I need to be able to explain that 'this is how I have documented their learning was successful today'). Five lessons a week, so let's say 4-12 hrs of lesson and assessment planning. Of course, most of my classes have a significant diversity in skills levels - so I need to modify the lessons so my students who work at a collegiate level are chewing on texts/ideas that are adequately challenging while also re-writing or substituting texts so my students at a 5th grade reading level are not completely lost. At then, there are my English Language Learners who need language specific accommodations. And my students with IEPs that need their texts and assessments with individualized modifications or via specific modalities. And alternative assignment for [this], [that], and the [other kid] who were absent this week. And - Oh - standardized tests are coming up so you better create time to talk grammar and test strategy. And we have three weeks left in the semester so you better make phone calls home to everyone who is struggling. And - and - and... it all comes out of the teacher's hide. I know HN is a community with a lot of people who work long and hard hours. We all make our choices and I do this job because it matters in a way that most do not. But, goddamn - it's emotionally exhausting to be a role model, a cheer leader, a stage performer and a social worker every second of every day. Sometimes, I just want to walk up to my desk, sit down, shut up, and do work like a normal human being. Instead, I show up with bells on to draw the map while I fly the plane and hope none of my passengers kick the doors out. So far - I hear I'm pretty good at it. But in the end, it would be a lie to deny that when I think about how my wife and I would like to buy a house, have a baby, I don't start whispering to friends with jobs in the private sector. [0] www.npr.org/sections/ed/2017/11/28/564054556/what-really-happened-at-the-school-where-every-senior-got-into-college
- aianus 9y ago
  Thanks for the reply. It certainly sounds like the job description is somewhat different than it is here: A) My teachers didn’t have to care if I skipped class beyond marking me absent. I probably skipped 60 classes in Grade 12 alone and nobody ever said anything beyond a machine making automated phone calls to my parents. B) We had no standardized tests or college entrance exams (other than an English assessment in Grade 10) C) My teachers only had around 110 students and 20h a week of instructional time. D) We rarely had graded or custom assignments more than once a week per class. You were on your own to do ungraded optional problem sets from the textbook most days. You sound like you really care, respect.

by aianus 9y ago

iak8god 9y ago

Is this supposed to be some kind of joke, or do you really imagine that lesson planning and grading alone for 4 daily hours of classroom instruction would take less than an additional 4 hours?

aianus 9y ago
Not the first time you do it, but by the third, fourth, year in a row, I imagine you would be reusing the lesson plans, assignments, and tests. I know for a fact that’s what my HS math teacher did because we got ahold of the old tests and assignments a couple of times and they were almost identical. Side note: I’m making him sound like a lazy slacker but he was the best teacher I’ve ever had in my life. He taught so much so well that I had perfect grades and didn’t learn any new math in university for the first 6 months.

germinalphrase 9y ago

I upvoted you. Thank you for the question. Well - I'm American. It's anecdotal - I know - but I have two good Canadian friends who teach in the Northwest Territories. They each (individually) make 2x my wage, have better benefits, more PTO, and work demands that are significantly narrower in scope. There are entire parts of my job that are simply "not their problem". They have - only half in jest - offered to sponsor my immigration. Not to belittle what was - I'm sure - a demanding TA job, but the educational mission at the k12 level is explicitly different from that of a higher education instructor. Most simply, in a higher education setting the learning is the student's problem while in a k12 setting the learning is - increasingly - the teacher's problem. For example, what kind of conversation would happen between administration and the high ed. instructor if they had a student that only showed up to class 50% of the time, was always stoned, and inevitably failed the class? There wouldn't be one. The student chose to fail. When I have a student who only shows up half the time, is always stoned, and fails because they won't do work - well - I get asked this question: what are you doing right now to help this child succeed? Fair question. Here's the wrong answer: I maintain a positive relationship and attempt to integrate him into the class - but, really, I barely know him. He only shows up to class half the time, is always stoned, and refuses to do any work. The correct answer: These are his discrete skills proficiencies and how I assessed them despite his apathy. These are his discrete skill gaps and the curricular interventions I have attempted to implement with him. This is how he interacts socially. This is what I know about his friend group. Here is what I have learned about his family situation. Here are my documented contacts home, to his councilor, to his social worker, and to his coach. There is intense pressure to prevent students from failing. It's now becoming apparent that schools are fraudulently passing students who have not met minimum graduation requirements [0]. Even if they're not - teachers are coming under increasing pressure to "find ways" to individually intervene on the behalf of students. It's a laudable goal with good intentions. Now, I have 29-35 students in each of my 5 classes for a total of 163 students this semester. Keeping in mind that the expectation is not only that I know 163 students by name - but that I am able to know their individual skills strengths/weaknesses, social entanglements, home life & problems, etc. so that I can adequately serve them. It then becomes a numbers game. Of my 40 hrs per week, I am actively teaching for ~33. If I assign one piece of writing per week which takes five minutes to assess I am already at 13.5 hours of work in addition to my instructional time. Now, I don't just assign one assignment per week, nor do I teach out of a textbook. A good lesson can require 1-3 hours to write and maybe another 30 minutes to create an assessment for that lesson (as I need to be able to explain that 'this is how I have documented their learning was successful today'). Five lessons a week, so let's say 4-12 hrs of lesson and assessment planning. Of course, most of my classes have a significant diversity in skills levels - so I need to modify the lessons so my students who work at a collegiate level are chewing on texts/ideas that are adequately challenging while also re-writing or substituting texts so my students at a 5th grade reading level are not completely lost. At then, there are my English Language Learners who need language specific accommodations. And my students with IEPs that need their texts and assessments with individualized modifications or via specific modalities. And alternative assignment for [this], [that], and the [other kid] who were absent this week. And - Oh - standardized tests are coming up so you better create time to talk grammar and test strategy. And we have three weeks left in the semester so you better make phone calls home to everyone who is struggling. And - and - and... it all comes out of the teacher's hide. I know HN is a community with a lot of people who work long and hard hours. We all make our choices and I do this job because it matters in a way that most do not. But, goddamn - it's emotionally exhausting to be a role model, a cheer leader, a stage performer and a social worker every second of every day. Sometimes, I just want to walk up to my desk, sit down, shut up, and do work like a normal human being. Instead, I show up with bells on to draw the map while I fly the plane and hope none of my passengers kick the doors out. So far - I hear I'm pretty good at it. But in the end, it would be a lie to deny that when I think about how my wife and I would like to buy a house, have a baby, I don't start whispering to friends with jobs in the private sector. [0] www.npr.org/sections/ed/2017/11/28/564054556/what-really-happened-at-the-school-where-every-senior-got-into-college

aianus 9y ago
Thanks for the reply. It certainly sounds like the job description is somewhat different than it is here: A) My teachers didn’t have to care if I skipped class beyond marking me absent. I probably skipped 60 classes in Grade 12 alone and nobody ever said anything beyond a machine making automated phone calls to my parents. B) We had no standardized tests or college entrance exams (other than an English assessment in Grade 10) C) My teachers only had around 110 students and 20h a week of instructional time. D) We rarely had graded or custom assignments more than once a week per class. You were on your own to do ungraded optional problem sets from the textbook most days. You sound like you really care, respect.