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I was surprised by these stats: https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2017/03/06/chart-the-percentage-women-and-men-each-profession/GBX22YsWl0XaeHghwXfE4H/story.htm

I was surprised by these stats: https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2017/03/06/chart-the-percentage-women-and-men-each-profession/GBX22YsWl0XaeHghwXfE4H/story.html https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2017/03/06/chart-the-perce... I don't really follow your conclusion though. Why is it education is so attractive to women? Why do you presume that other professions are considered by women to be 'throwing their lives away'?

Spooky23 9y ago
I think women are disproportionately attracted to jobs where the mission is people focused and caring focused. Many women are doubly attracted to jobs where there is schedule flexibility. Teaching is a sweet gig if you intend to have children or want to travel. It’s also an income enhancer in blue states, as teacher benefits are usually good and makes it easier for a spouse to take career risks. Nursing is a similar deal. My sister in law is a nurse practitioner. She has unlimited job options to bounce around and can ask for and get whatever schedule meets her needs.
- watwut 9y ago
  > Many women are doubly attracted to jobs where there is schedule flexibility. Female dominated jobs have less flexibility on average then male dominated jobs. It is mostly that primary caregivers after they have children need more flexibility, but original choice of occupation does not reflect this later need. > Teaching is a sweet gig if you intend to have children or want to travel. No it is not. It does not allow remote work nor flexible hours. You have to be there at time for teaching students who came. I am programmer and have waaay more flexibility then teachers. > Nursing is a similar deal. My sister in law is a nurse practitioner. She has unlimited job options to bounce around and can ask for and get whatever schedule meets her needs. That would be unusal, nurses I know have to be on the job on time and at schedule.
  - muninn_ 9y ago
    >Female dominated jobs have less flexibility on average then male dominated jobs. It is mostly that primary caregivers after they have children need more flexibility, but original choice of occupation does not reflect this later need. Source? In finance I don't see my boss making my female colleagues skip going to the dentist while letting male colleagues go. I do see the lady that sits near me leave all the time for appointments or what have you for her kids. I don't really mind, I think it's good that we have flexibility, especially with all the top-down directive to make sure women (not men obviously just women) have more scheduling freedom. Personally, I'd take the scheduling freedom and work half time and stay at home with my kids instead of being stuck in a high-pressure career - but I don't have that option. >That would be unusal, nurses I know have to be on the job on time and at schedule True to some extent. When you're actually scheduled you have to be on there on schedule, obviously, but if you don't like your schedule then you can just jump to another hospital, at least in any mid-sized city with a few different hospitals and clinics. I don't see men working at Ford or something complaining that they can't just come in whenever is convenient for their family. I was actually having this discussion with a pharmacist (obviously not a nurse but a nurse on my team was listening in) and she was lamenting about her schedule - really likes her job but doesn't like the schedule - so I was giving her advice (mansplaining and placing an emotional burden on her and others if you live in SF) on how to handle having this conversation with her manager. Ultimately though you don't get everything you want and you have to be willing to quit the job if it doesn't fit your schedule - some people just aren't because of the money or whatever (not unique to women either, obviously). If you're a nurse (because that was the example) and your kids demand more time than your job allows, you should find a new job - it's not your employers responsibility to pay you for not being there or not doing work. They can accommodate you if they can - tech is easier to do that in, but otherwise it's your life and those are your decisions. Be an adult.
    - monkeynotes 9y ago
      > it's not your employers responsibility to pay you for not being there While this is perhaps true in principle, in practice employers pay you not to be at work all the time. If an employer didn't pay you to be sick or take a vacation you'd probably quit. Setting expectations about what is an acceptable work load is an ongoing conversation between employees and employers. > I'd take the scheduling freedom and work half time and stay at home with my kids instead of being stuck in a high-pressure career - but I don't have that option. > you should find a new job I firmly believe that if you are not happy then you should either make life changes to meet your acceptable happiness criteria, or rethink your expectations and acquiesce. Whichever is easier. The main thing is to get happy. The only thing in life worth anything is happiness, pursue it at all costs.
  - Spooky23 9y ago
    Teachers in my state work 180 days a year. You get the months of July and August off, two one-week holidays and all government holidays. In my wife's district you also get multiple religious holidays. The savings from a childcare perspective for us are probably on the order of $5,000-7,000 per summer for childcare alone. Nurses can work in all sorts of places. Hospitals run shifts and have 8 and 12 hour shift options. Some hospital units run with two week schedules, so you can stack 12-hour shifts and work 6 days and take off 14. Surgical nurses often work 5AM-1PM. Nurses can also work per diem shifts on hospital floors, 9-5 shifts at doctor's offices or insurance companies, etc. These professions do require that people actually show up to work and do so on time. Adulting is tough -- Many employers of programmers and engineers have similar requirements. The "upside" of that arrangement is that once your shift ends, your work ends. No boss is calling a nurse to demand that you respond to an email at 9PM.
    - watwut 9y ago
      Most programmers don't have to pick up phone at 9PM nor respond mails, if you do you have royally shitty management. I work as a programmer and I am happy with that. There were projects that were under stress and pressure, but 9pm necessary email is purely self shot by bad management. Teachers are normally expected to work at least one of those months and cant take vacation during year. I can and that saves us money and we have less crowded places to visit. You cant come an hour later or come later from lunch or what have you - perfectly normal things for programmer. You cant work remote - working remote a few days a week is completely acceptable for programmers. Teachers do actually work evenings - all that grading and similar things. Nurses shifts are opposite of flexibility. Flexibility as I have, when I can come as I please and leave as I please is unheard of. As a programmer I have colleagues who occasionally take off Wednesday off and work Sunday instead. They have negotiation leverage for that. I don't know what you mean with stuff about adulting, it is irrelevant. My point was that female dominated fields are not the ones with flexible working time, there was even study about it. The idea that women on average have more flexible kinds of jobs is fantasy based on peoples idea on what is practical for primary caregiver. Female primary caregivers whose husbands cant do (or who want to do everything by themselves) have part time jobs.

Spooky23 9y ago

I think women are disproportionately attracted to jobs where the mission is people focused and caring focused. Many women are doubly attracted to jobs where there is schedule flexibility. Teaching is a sweet gig if you intend to have children or want to travel. It’s also an income enhancer in blue states, as teacher benefits are usually good and makes it easier for a spouse to take career risks. Nursing is a similar deal. My sister in law is a nurse practitioner. She has unlimited job options to bounce around and can ask for and get whatever schedule meets her needs.

watwut 9y ago
> Many women are doubly attracted to jobs where there is schedule flexibility. Female dominated jobs have less flexibility on average then male dominated jobs. It is mostly that primary caregivers after they have children need more flexibility, but original choice of occupation does not reflect this later need. > Teaching is a sweet gig if you intend to have children or want to travel. No it is not. It does not allow remote work nor flexible hours. You have to be there at time for teaching students who came. I am programmer and have waaay more flexibility then teachers. > Nursing is a similar deal. My sister in law is a nurse practitioner. She has unlimited job options to bounce around and can ask for and get whatever schedule meets her needs. That would be unusal, nurses I know have to be on the job on time and at schedule.
- muninn_ 9y ago
  >Female dominated jobs have less flexibility on average then male dominated jobs. It is mostly that primary caregivers after they have children need more flexibility, but original choice of occupation does not reflect this later need. Source? In finance I don't see my boss making my female colleagues skip going to the dentist while letting male colleagues go. I do see the lady that sits near me leave all the time for appointments or what have you for her kids. I don't really mind, I think it's good that we have flexibility, especially with all the top-down directive to make sure women (not men obviously just women) have more scheduling freedom. Personally, I'd take the scheduling freedom and work half time and stay at home with my kids instead of being stuck in a high-pressure career - but I don't have that option. >That would be unusal, nurses I know have to be on the job on time and at schedule True to some extent. When you're actually scheduled you have to be on there on schedule, obviously, but if you don't like your schedule then you can just jump to another hospital, at least in any mid-sized city with a few different hospitals and clinics. I don't see men working at Ford or something complaining that they can't just come in whenever is convenient for their family. I was actually having this discussion with a pharmacist (obviously not a nurse but a nurse on my team was listening in) and she was lamenting about her schedule - really likes her job but doesn't like the schedule - so I was giving her advice (mansplaining and placing an emotional burden on her and others if you live in SF) on how to handle having this conversation with her manager. Ultimately though you don't get everything you want and you have to be willing to quit the job if it doesn't fit your schedule - some people just aren't because of the money or whatever (not unique to women either, obviously). If you're a nurse (because that was the example) and your kids demand more time than your job allows, you should find a new job - it's not your employers responsibility to pay you for not being there or not doing work. They can accommodate you if they can - tech is easier to do that in, but otherwise it's your life and those are your decisions. Be an adult.
  - monkeynotes 9y ago
    > it's not your employers responsibility to pay you for not being there While this is perhaps true in principle, in practice employers pay you not to be at work all the time. If an employer didn't pay you to be sick or take a vacation you'd probably quit. Setting expectations about what is an acceptable work load is an ongoing conversation between employees and employers. > I'd take the scheduling freedom and work half time and stay at home with my kids instead of being stuck in a high-pressure career - but I don't have that option. > you should find a new job I firmly believe that if you are not happy then you should either make life changes to meet your acceptable happiness criteria, or rethink your expectations and acquiesce. Whichever is easier. The main thing is to get happy. The only thing in life worth anything is happiness, pursue it at all costs.
- Spooky23 9y ago
  Teachers in my state work 180 days a year. You get the months of July and August off, two one-week holidays and all government holidays. In my wife's district you also get multiple religious holidays. The savings from a childcare perspective for us are probably on the order of $5,000-7,000 per summer for childcare alone. Nurses can work in all sorts of places. Hospitals run shifts and have 8 and 12 hour shift options. Some hospital units run with two week schedules, so you can stack 12-hour shifts and work 6 days and take off 14. Surgical nurses often work 5AM-1PM. Nurses can also work per diem shifts on hospital floors, 9-5 shifts at doctor's offices or insurance companies, etc. These professions do require that people actually show up to work and do so on time. Adulting is tough -- Many employers of programmers and engineers have similar requirements. The "upside" of that arrangement is that once your shift ends, your work ends. No boss is calling a nurse to demand that you respond to an email at 9PM.
  - watwut 9y ago
    Most programmers don't have to pick up phone at 9PM nor respond mails, if you do you have royally shitty management. I work as a programmer and I am happy with that. There were projects that were under stress and pressure, but 9pm necessary email is purely self shot by bad management. Teachers are normally expected to work at least one of those months and cant take vacation during year. I can and that saves us money and we have less crowded places to visit. You cant come an hour later or come later from lunch or what have you - perfectly normal things for programmer. You cant work remote - working remote a few days a week is completely acceptable for programmers. Teachers do actually work evenings - all that grading and similar things. Nurses shifts are opposite of flexibility. Flexibility as I have, when I can come as I please and leave as I please is unheard of. As a programmer I have colleagues who occasionally take off Wednesday off and work Sunday instead. They have negotiation leverage for that. I don't know what you mean with stuff about adulting, it is irrelevant. My point was that female dominated fields are not the ones with flexible working time, there was even study about it. The idea that women on average have more flexible kinds of jobs is fantasy based on peoples idea on what is practical for primary caregiver. Female primary caregivers whose husbands cant do (or who want to do everything by themselves) have part time jobs.