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I agree. I think this article is just another attack on masculinity, introducing uncertainty and doubt about masculinity itself by acting like being a man is co

I agree. I think this article is just another attack on masculinity, introducing uncertainty and doubt about masculinity itself by acting like being a man is confusing. I don't support these men who turn on their own biology, tearing down the buttresses of the masculine identity under the pretense that "it's too hard/confusing/challenging/whatever to be a man." Nah. Sack up, get your life straight, take your licks, stand tall, and keep moving. Master your emotions and be aware of the interpersonal dynamics that impact you. Strengthen yourself in every sense of the word, minimize your use of porn and video games, and build a useful set of skills. Stay humble and let your work talk for you. I could write a list a mile long, and I think most guys can do the same. We have history books full of great men to study and emulate. Some men are being co-opted to do the insidious dirty work of the anti-masculine feminism of our modern era, falling prey to doublespeak ("feminism" means "equality"), sexual manipulation, and the empty claim that something is wrong with being a man. > toxic masculinity There's nothing toxic about masculinity. Full stop.

cabraca 9y ago
> There's nothing toxic about masculinity. Full stop. I agree. the problem is how young boys direct those masculin traits. while former generations had a male rolemodel and ways to channel their masculin traits, i see those channeling effects fade. single parents, adhd and drugged kids, helicopter parents. Its like there is no easy way for a young child to explore and focus their personal traits. I see Men's sheds [0] as a reemergence of those channeling effects, and that is definitly a good thing. Their slogan is "Men don't talk face to face, they talk shoulder to shoulder", what i see as a direct opposite of the (what you call) anti-masculine feminist way of "talk about your feelings" [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men%27s_shed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men%27s_shed
the_grue 9y ago
Heh, it seems you feel that every man has to match your idea of a man. Sorry to disappoint, but there are more kinds of men, and it's not up to you to tell them what to be or how to live their lives. I think the OP's point is that everyone should have a healthy way to realize themselves, irrespective of whether they match our expectations or not.
- totalZero 9y ago
  > every man has to match your idea of a man. On the contrary, those like the author who argue that some kinds of masculinity are "toxic" are the ones attempting to impose such restraints upon men.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
archagon 9y ago
> There’s nothing toxic about masculinity. No, but there’s a whole lot toxic about toxic masculinity. There’s also nothing intrinsic about it: you can have an abundance of testosterone without having to be violent, emotionless, or sexually agressive. The issue is a social one, and the roided-out warrior/womanizer archetype is long overdue for retirement. By the way, I am specifically responding to the argument concerning toxic masculinity. There’s nothing wrong with “being a man”, with providing for your family, with being responsible and reliable and strong. But that’s a separate current of masculinity, and one which would in fact be strengthened by the elimination of its toxic counterpart. (And even then, it’s not a kind of masculinity that every man is capable of acting out.)
- totalZero 9y ago
  > toxic masculinity Until you define this seemingly insidious term, there cannot be a substantive conversation about it.

cabraca 9y ago

> There's nothing toxic about masculinity. Full stop. I agree. the problem is how young boys direct those masculin traits. while former generations had a male rolemodel and ways to channel their masculin traits, i see those channeling effects fade. single parents, adhd and drugged kids, helicopter parents. Its like there is no easy way for a young child to explore and focus their personal traits. I see Men's sheds [0] as a reemergence of those channeling effects, and that is definitly a good thing. Their slogan is "Men don't talk face to face, they talk shoulder to shoulder", what i see as a direct opposite of the (what you call) anti-masculine feminist way of "talk about your feelings" [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men%27s_shed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men%27s_shed

the_grue 9y ago

Heh, it seems you feel that every man has to match your idea of a man. Sorry to disappoint, but there are more kinds of men, and it's not up to you to tell them what to be or how to live their lives. I think the OP's point is that everyone should have a healthy way to realize themselves, irrespective of whether they match our expectations or not.

totalZero 9y ago
> every man has to match your idea of a man. On the contrary, those like the author who argue that some kinds of masculinity are "toxic" are the ones attempting to impose such restraints upon men.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]

archagon 9y ago

> There’s nothing toxic about masculinity. No, but there’s a whole lot toxic about toxic masculinity. There’s also nothing intrinsic about it: you can have an abundance of testosterone without having to be violent, emotionless, or sexually agressive. The issue is a social one, and the roided-out warrior/womanizer archetype is long overdue for retirement. By the way, I am specifically responding to the argument concerning toxic masculinity. There’s nothing wrong with “being a man”, with providing for your family, with being responsible and reliable and strong. But that’s a separate current of masculinity, and one which would in fact be strengthened by the elimination of its toxic counterpart. (And even then, it’s not a kind of masculinity that every man is capable of acting out.)

totalZero 9y ago
> toxic masculinity Until you define this seemingly insidious term, there cannot be a substantive conversation about it.