11 ms·

Insufficient sample size for drawing conclusions about target population. /sarcasm

izendejas 16y ago
Right, that shouldn't be the point of this article. I think the takeaway are the personal stories. Has anyone ever talked to a homeless person before? I recommend doing so from time to time. It's easy to judge some of these "bums." You'll find out some of these people have serious psychological/psychiatric problems (with alcoholism/drug addiction being a result, not just a cause).
- jacquesm 16y ago
  There was a girl living in a house of mine that stood empty for a year because I couldn't sell it. Before then she was living in an old caboose. We talked quite a bit, she was a gifted artist on the one hand and totally out of touch with the world around her on the other. She said she could talk to trees and was completely fascinated by eyes. Last I heard from her she was living in Spain, doing drugs living on the street again. I don't think she was homeless out of need as much as that she simply chose not to be a part of this society of ours.
  - izendejas 16y ago
    Sounds like schizophrenia to me. I subletted to a person with schizophrenia (a very nice korean guy, very religious), also. As I point out somewhere around here, it's a truly fascinating mental condition.
  - mkramlich 16y ago
    I am not a doctor but from your description of her there's a good chance she had schizophrenia. Her statements are consistent with it, and problems keeping friendships and jobs leads to financial and social problems with then leads to homelessness which then leads to more problems, including drugs, and it snowballs from there. If this was the case, the root affliction is not her fault, and she probably needed anti-psychotic medication on a regular basis, and government financial aid to keep her off the streets. Talk therapy is almost useless for that condition. Though giving her shelter and helping her to keep social connections is vital. So it sounds like you helped her out a lot.
    - jacquesm 16y ago
      I don't think it is possible to psycho-analyze someone based on so little data. If everybody that talked to trees or other spirits had schizophrenia you'd have to include each and every religious person, to me their beliefs are just as weird as someone talking to trees. It's not that simple.
      - mkramlich 16y ago
        Agreed, thus the wording of my first sentence. However the belief that you can talk to trees (delusion) combined with being fascinated with eyes (possible hallucination or sensory distortion) combined with no job or home all adds up to something highly consistent with schizophrenia. I've had a lot of direct personal experience with someone who has this condition, and have done a lot of reading and talking to doctors, so I have some basis for making this estimation. Regarding religion. That's complicated. It may very well be the case that some people who make religious claims are in fact mentally ill. There are likely also other people who claim to follow a religion who are not mentally ill: they were either raised by their parents to believe that way, or, they chose it.
        jacquesm 16y ago
        > combined with being fascinated with eyes (possible hallucination or sensory distortion) In an artistic sense. A sample of what she could do: http://pics.ww.com/v/jacques/eckart/dscf1836.jpg.html http://pics.ww.com/v/jacques/eckart/dscf1836.jpg.html
    - BrandonM 16y ago
      Why do you feel the need to change her life? Did you even consider that she might actually enjoy a life that is so alien to your experience?
mkramlich 16y ago
Agreed. I lived and worked in downtown Chicago for close to 3 years. There is a large population of beggars. About 90% of them are black males. During the same period, I also saw lots of black males, who looked like these same beggars, in convenience stores and grocery stores buying alcohol and tobacco -- ONLY. Not other stuff along with it. Only those things. They often favored a certain kind of beer. I often saw that same kind of beer can, or wine bottle in a brown paper bag, discarded empty in the gutter or near trash cans in the same neighborhoods. Eventually, you put two and two together and conclude that it adds up to four. Do all of those beggars buy alcohol and tobacco with the money they get? Probably not. Are all of them addicts or lazy? Probably not. Are probably a large portion of them that way -- and/or mentally ill? Probably yes. But once you see that enough with your own eyes you begin to feel less sympathy for many of them. Not a total lack of sympathy or empathy -- I don't want anyone to live that kind of life, even if it is a case of failed willpower -- but it also hardens you a little bit when there's a call for more aid. Some people truly have hard things happen to them, and it's not their fault. Some people truly bring trouble upon themselves, and it is their fault. And it's hard to distinguish between them from a distance.
- branden 16y ago
  They're hard to distinguish up close, too. No matter how you get there, whether it's mostly by choice or mostly by circumstance, rock bottom will likely involve you doing whatever you can to relieve your misery for a few short hours. I have a hard time faulting someone for short-term behavior when they don't have much of a future to work toward. But you're (somewhat) correct when it comes to aid. Giving a homeless person 5 bucks won't do anything to alter their condition. It'll fill their belly, at best. But consider what 5 bucks probably means to me or you and what a meal means to someone who can't always count on one.
  - philwelch 16y ago
    If you worry about homeless people spending your 5 bucks on booze, go spend that 5 bucks on a sandwich and give them the sandwich.
jacquesm 16y ago
I'm not so sure about that. My experience with homeless people is that most of them are honest to a fault. They wouldn't be begging if they were not. Begging is asking for money. That's an honest persons last recourse when they have no other options. A dishonest person would steal, not beg.
- DeusExMachina 16y ago
  I'm sorry to contradict you, but there are dishonest beggars too, that make leverage of compassion. In Italy, some time ago, they made a report on TV on fake beggars. They were normal people, with houses, jobs and cars that in their spare time pretended to be beggars just to get more money.
  - jacquesm 16y ago
    Yes, but they are not the norm, and I did write 'most'. And don't be sorry :)
  - punnned 16y ago
    I think there are certainly the more 'honest' homeless people. But I do guess where you live. In some areas/countries being 'dishonest/dodgy' is the 'norm' and so it attracts the majority of homeless people to do the dishonest things they do.
    - DeusExMachina 16y ago
      I lived in Italy at that time and yes, nowadays italians (with the proper exceptions) are not the most honest people you can find. (I am italian myself and I say this with a little of bitter sadness, but it is how it goes, unfortunately).
  - jdelsman 16y ago
    Try going to the streets of London, especially in Shoreditch. There are tons of career beggars there. I have actually seen them coordinate their plans near a Tesco. The BBC has also written a few articles on the topic.

Right, that shouldn't be the point of this article. I think the takeaway are the personal stories. Has anyone ever talked to a homeless person before? I recommend doing so from time to time. It's easy to judge some of these "bums." You'll find out some of these people have serious psychological/psychiatric problems (with alcoholism/drug addiction being a result, not just a cause).

jacquesm 16y ago
There was a girl living in a house of mine that stood empty for a year because I couldn't sell it. Before then she was living in an old caboose. We talked quite a bit, she was a gifted artist on the one hand and totally out of touch with the world around her on the other. She said she could talk to trees and was completely fascinated by eyes. Last I heard from her she was living in Spain, doing drugs living on the street again. I don't think she was homeless out of need as much as that she simply chose not to be a part of this society of ours.
- izendejas 16y ago
  Sounds like schizophrenia to me. I subletted to a person with schizophrenia (a very nice korean guy, very religious), also. As I point out somewhere around here, it's a truly fascinating mental condition.
- mkramlich 16y ago
  I am not a doctor but from your description of her there's a good chance she had schizophrenia. Her statements are consistent with it, and problems keeping friendships and jobs leads to financial and social problems with then leads to homelessness which then leads to more problems, including drugs, and it snowballs from there. If this was the case, the root affliction is not her fault, and she probably needed anti-psychotic medication on a regular basis, and government financial aid to keep her off the streets. Talk therapy is almost useless for that condition. Though giving her shelter and helping her to keep social connections is vital. So it sounds like you helped her out a lot.
  - jacquesm 16y ago
    I don't think it is possible to psycho-analyze someone based on so little data. If everybody that talked to trees or other spirits had schizophrenia you'd have to include each and every religious person, to me their beliefs are just as weird as someone talking to trees. It's not that simple.
    - mkramlich 16y ago
      Agreed, thus the wording of my first sentence. However the belief that you can talk to trees (delusion) combined with being fascinated with eyes (possible hallucination or sensory distortion) combined with no job or home all adds up to something highly consistent with schizophrenia. I've had a lot of direct personal experience with someone who has this condition, and have done a lot of reading and talking to doctors, so I have some basis for making this estimation. Regarding religion. That's complicated. It may very well be the case that some people who make religious claims are in fact mentally ill. There are likely also other people who claim to follow a religion who are not mentally ill: they were either raised by their parents to believe that way, or, they chose it.
      - jacquesm 16y ago
        > combined with being fascinated with eyes (possible hallucination or sensory distortion) In an artistic sense. A sample of what she could do: http://pics.ww.com/v/jacques/eckart/dscf1836.jpg.html http://pics.ww.com/v/jacques/eckart/dscf1836.jpg.html
  - BrandonM 16y ago
    Why do you feel the need to change her life? Did you even consider that she might actually enjoy a life that is so alien to your experience?

mkramlich 16y ago

Agreed. I lived and worked in downtown Chicago for close to 3 years. There is a large population of beggars. About 90% of them are black males. During the same period, I also saw lots of black males, who looked like these same beggars, in convenience stores and grocery stores buying alcohol and tobacco -- ONLY. Not other stuff along with it. Only those things. They often favored a certain kind of beer. I often saw that same kind of beer can, or wine bottle in a brown paper bag, discarded empty in the gutter or near trash cans in the same neighborhoods. Eventually, you put two and two together and conclude that it adds up to four. Do all of those beggars buy alcohol and tobacco with the money they get? Probably not. Are all of them addicts or lazy? Probably not. Are probably a large portion of them that way -- and/or mentally ill? Probably yes. But once you see that enough with your own eyes you begin to feel less sympathy for many of them. Not a total lack of sympathy or empathy -- I don't want anyone to live that kind of life, even if it is a case of failed willpower -- but it also hardens you a little bit when there's a call for more aid. Some people truly have hard things happen to them, and it's not their fault. Some people truly bring trouble upon themselves, and it is their fault. And it's hard to distinguish between them from a distance.

branden 16y ago
They're hard to distinguish up close, too. No matter how you get there, whether it's mostly by choice or mostly by circumstance, rock bottom will likely involve you doing whatever you can to relieve your misery for a few short hours. I have a hard time faulting someone for short-term behavior when they don't have much of a future to work toward. But you're (somewhat) correct when it comes to aid. Giving a homeless person 5 bucks won't do anything to alter their condition. It'll fill their belly, at best. But consider what 5 bucks probably means to me or you and what a meal means to someone who can't always count on one.
- philwelch 16y ago
  If you worry about homeless people spending your 5 bucks on booze, go spend that 5 bucks on a sandwich and give them the sandwich.

jacquesm 16y ago

I'm not so sure about that. My experience with homeless people is that most of them are honest to a fault. They wouldn't be begging if they were not. Begging is asking for money. That's an honest persons last recourse when they have no other options. A dishonest person would steal, not beg.

DeusExMachina 16y ago
I'm sorry to contradict you, but there are dishonest beggars too, that make leverage of compassion. In Italy, some time ago, they made a report on TV on fake beggars. They were normal people, with houses, jobs and cars that in their spare time pretended to be beggars just to get more money.
- jacquesm 16y ago
  Yes, but they are not the norm, and I did write 'most'. And don't be sorry :)
- punnned 16y ago
  I think there are certainly the more 'honest' homeless people. But I do guess where you live. In some areas/countries being 'dishonest/dodgy' is the 'norm' and so it attracts the majority of homeless people to do the dishonest things they do.
  - DeusExMachina 16y ago
    I lived in Italy at that time and yes, nowadays italians (with the proper exceptions) are not the most honest people you can find. (I am italian myself and I say this with a little of bitter sadness, but it is how it goes, unfortunately).
- jdelsman 16y ago
  Try going to the streets of London, especially in Shoreditch. There are tons of career beggars there. I have actually seen them coordinate their plans near a Tesco. The BBC has also written a few articles on the topic.