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Very interesting. However, other "religions" such as Buddhism and Hinduism have spoken experientially of Nothing, and the universe arising out of Nothing. This

Very interesting. However, other "religions" such as Buddhism and Hinduism have spoken experientially of Nothing, and the universe arising out of Nothing. This has been misunderstood/misinterpreted as "nihilism" by the west. Refer "Ashtavakra Gita" and ancient text, for example.

pavs 16y ago
This reminds me of Infinite monkey theorem. There are so many religion disciplines with so many diverse views on so many things that someone from somewhere will point to an obscure reference to a religion and argue "See this religion also talked about this 1000s of years ago and science just discovered it now". And lets forget overwhelming majority of the religious reference that science obliterates. So, lets say tomorrow, we discover with definite evidence that the universe did actually came out of something, instead of nothing (which we don't know yet for sure as krauss pointed out), most religious people will forget about this reference made in Buddhism and Hinduism to proclaim "Science validates us", but instead will argue "Science doesn't know everything". Please note that this is not what I am saying your personal position is, just making a general observation of religion sometimes looking for validation from science, only when it fits their world-view.
- chrischen 16y ago
  Buddhism isn't really a religion like Christianity is. There are no faith-based assumptions in Buddhism and it makes no claim to anything you can't reason yourself independently (as far as I know). I think you should read up on it a bit before lumping it with traditional religions. I don't think your infinite monkey theorem applies to Buddhism because it doesn't have prophecies (afaik) or literal descriptions of how the universe was created. In fact, based on what I reAd I don't think buddhists even worship a god. A Buddha seems to be just a description of a state of spiritual enlightenment. And a trait with most religions is that adherence needs to be exclusive from other religions. From what I learned from the simpsons, buddhists are allowed to practice other religions. That's another sign Buddhism isn't just another branch of Christianity.
  - pavs 16y ago
    > Buddhism isn't really a religion like Christianity is. ... > I think you should read up on it a bit before lumping it with traditional religions. I didn't really say that or implied that or say anything that's specific to buddhism or any religion.
- aufreak3 16y ago
  And lets forget overwhelming majority of the religious reference that science obliterates. This is actually funny. Science works by obliterating ... itself. Newton's law of gravity is wrong. That certainly doesn't discredit Newton. Its ok in science to be wrong or right about something. So why should a different rule apply to religions. I always take the opposite side of the argument :)
  - pavs 16y ago
    I hope you are joking. If not, you should know that science is not the opposite of religion. Non-belief (or atheism) is the opposite of religion. Scientific process is often used to disqualify religious nonsense. Its like saying why should a different rule apply to Hitler when I enjoy eating strawberry ice-cream? Absolutely makes no sense.
    - aufreak3 16y ago
      I was :) ... but it is easy to see it that way considering all the jokes that the speaker throws to great response from the audience. Scientific process is often used to disqualify religious nonsense All I'm saying is that scientific process is also used to disqualify "scientific nonsense" as well, such as turning lead into gold. So religious nonsense isn't any different. Just as you'd credit alchemists for contributing in other ways, "religions" ought to get credit for contributing to psychology, for instance, if not for creation theories.
      - pavs 16y ago
        > All I'm saying is that scientific process is also used to disqualify "scientific nonsense" as well, such as turning lead into gold. So religious nonsense isn't any different. Yes. Science is self-correcting. Its common knowledge. Religion is not self-correcting. You might have different interpretation (over the years) of religious allegory, but nonsense is nonsense; regardless of your interpretations. I don't really see the connection.
        16y ago
- crazydiamond 16y ago
  > There are so many religion disciplines with so many diverse views on so many things that someone from somewhere will point to an obscure reference to a religion and argue "See this religion also talked about this 1000s of years ago and science just discovered it now". And lets forget overwhelming majority of the religious reference that science obliterates. I think what i spoke of was not one of many diverse things some religions/faiths/whatever have spoken of. It is the principal experience upon investigating one's nature through meditation. I quoted one text, only due to its small size and the fact that it is one of the oldest. There are many others: such as the Upanishads (many of them), the Vedas, the Avadhuta Gita, the Ribhu Gita that all speak of this "nothing" being the reality from which everything arises as a vibration/ripple/disturbance. They do not just speak of it: they give you the path to realize and confirm it yourself.

pavs 16y ago

This reminds me of Infinite monkey theorem. There are so many religion disciplines with so many diverse views on so many things that someone from somewhere will point to an obscure reference to a religion and argue "See this religion also talked about this 1000s of years ago and science just discovered it now". And lets forget overwhelming majority of the religious reference that science obliterates. So, lets say tomorrow, we discover with definite evidence that the universe did actually came out of something, instead of nothing (which we don't know yet for sure as krauss pointed out), most religious people will forget about this reference made in Buddhism and Hinduism to proclaim "Science validates us", but instead will argue "Science doesn't know everything". Please note that this is not what I am saying your personal position is, just making a general observation of religion sometimes looking for validation from science, only when it fits their world-view.

chrischen 16y ago
Buddhism isn't really a religion like Christianity is. There are no faith-based assumptions in Buddhism and it makes no claim to anything you can't reason yourself independently (as far as I know). I think you should read up on it a bit before lumping it with traditional religions. I don't think your infinite monkey theorem applies to Buddhism because it doesn't have prophecies (afaik) or literal descriptions of how the universe was created. In fact, based on what I reAd I don't think buddhists even worship a god. A Buddha seems to be just a description of a state of spiritual enlightenment. And a trait with most religions is that adherence needs to be exclusive from other religions. From what I learned from the simpsons, buddhists are allowed to practice other religions. That's another sign Buddhism isn't just another branch of Christianity.
- pavs 16y ago
  > Buddhism isn't really a religion like Christianity is. ... > I think you should read up on it a bit before lumping it with traditional religions. I didn't really say that or implied that or say anything that's specific to buddhism or any religion.
aufreak3 16y ago
And lets forget overwhelming majority of the religious reference that science obliterates. This is actually funny. Science works by obliterating ... itself. Newton's law of gravity is wrong. That certainly doesn't discredit Newton. Its ok in science to be wrong or right about something. So why should a different rule apply to religions. I always take the opposite side of the argument :)
- pavs 16y ago
  I hope you are joking. If not, you should know that science is not the opposite of religion. Non-belief (or atheism) is the opposite of religion. Scientific process is often used to disqualify religious nonsense. Its like saying why should a different rule apply to Hitler when I enjoy eating strawberry ice-cream? Absolutely makes no sense.
  - aufreak3 16y ago
    I was :) ... but it is easy to see it that way considering all the jokes that the speaker throws to great response from the audience. Scientific process is often used to disqualify religious nonsense All I'm saying is that scientific process is also used to disqualify "scientific nonsense" as well, such as turning lead into gold. So religious nonsense isn't any different. Just as you'd credit alchemists for contributing in other ways, "religions" ought to get credit for contributing to psychology, for instance, if not for creation theories.
    - pavs 16y ago
      > All I'm saying is that scientific process is also used to disqualify "scientific nonsense" as well, such as turning lead into gold. So religious nonsense isn't any different. Yes. Science is self-correcting. Its common knowledge. Religion is not self-correcting. You might have different interpretation (over the years) of religious allegory, but nonsense is nonsense; regardless of your interpretations. I don't really see the connection.
      - 16y ago
crazydiamond 16y ago
> There are so many religion disciplines with so many diverse views on so many things that someone from somewhere will point to an obscure reference to a religion and argue "See this religion also talked about this 1000s of years ago and science just discovered it now". And lets forget overwhelming majority of the religious reference that science obliterates. I think what i spoke of was not one of many diverse things some religions/faiths/whatever have spoken of. It is the principal experience upon investigating one's nature through meditation. I quoted one text, only due to its small size and the fact that it is one of the oldest. There are many others: such as the Upanishads (many of them), the Vedas, the Avadhuta Gita, the Ribhu Gita that all speak of this "nothing" being the reality from which everything arises as a vibration/ripple/disturbance. They do not just speak of it: they give you the path to realize and confirm it yourself.