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This seems less about scarcity and more about Apple protecting their brand. > ...child labor is still used in parts of the mining industry. > ...Apple has ste

This seems less about scarcity and more about Apple protecting their brand. > ...child labor is still used in parts of the mining industry. > ...Apple has stepped up its engagement with cobalt suppliers after the origin of the metal in its supply chain came under scrutiny from human rights groups. A great many of Apple's customers care a lot about this kind of thing. Also, Apple may genuinely feel like they're obligated to be a leader in this area.

chronic193 9y ago
> A great many of Apple's customers care a lot about this kind of thing. And an even greater many of Apple customers do not care about those things. The number one deciding factor for many people in the world is how much the monthly payment will be. Full stop.
as1mov 9y ago
> A great many of Apple's customers care a lot about this kind of thing. For my own sanity, I'll assume this is sarcasm.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- dilippkumar 9y ago
  I'm an apple customer. I care a lot about this kind of thing. It's one of the reasons I'm happy to be locked into the brand.
  - ReverseCold 9y ago
    I'd almost be willing to argue that if an opinion appears on HN, it is likely to not be representative of the relevant population (especially for consumer goods like iPhones).
  - as1mov 9y ago
    I'd reckon a vast majority of the users in the real world don't give a shit about it, people don't buy iPhone's because they care about privacy or child labor, they buy it because everyone else is buying it too.
    - innagadadavida 9y ago
      Activist groups are making people give a shit about these issues. Maybe majority of the customers don’t care but if there are a small bunch of customers that are passionate and make a lot of noise and tweet negative stuff then it’s only natural for Apple to do something to protect its brand.
roenxi 9y ago
I'm not saying it doesn't happen, because it probably does, but it would be a surprise to me if using child labour is really cost competitive. I'd expect a couple of small and desperate suppliers. Do you have a link handy? Mining for bulk materials (iron ore, coal, copper, aggregates, etc) is going to be 100% mechanised at the scale that big buyers are interested in. If cobalt is still mined by the vein then maybe child laborers get used because they are smaller, but as battery production is getting serious child labour just won't work. Take gold; you couldn't supply gold to a bullion bank with child labour because they do not produce fast enough. Big gold suppliers are happy with an orebody with grades measured in parts per million, and child cannot move a tonne of dirt as quickly, cheaply or consistently as a machine.
- philipkglass 9y ago
  I think that you're neglecting legality/stability issues. Artisan mining can eke out a profit at low productivity rates if the laborers are operating in locations that are de jure protected from mining, but de facto have weak law enforcement. That's a big driver of artisan mining of gold, including that using child labor. High-efficiency, high-capital-investment mining processes also require a certain amount of expected stability to justify the up-front costs. If big multinationals think that an armed group is likely to take their equipment at gunpoint, or destroy it, they'll stay away and never be in direct competition with the capital-poor, low-productivity small scale methods.
- XR0CSWV3h3kZWg 9y ago
  > Mining for bulk materials (iron ore, coal, copper, aggregates, etc) is going to be 100% mechanised at the scale that big buyers are interested in. Why do you assume that? It seems to be not the case for cobalt: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/business/batteries/congo-cobalt-mining-for-lithium-ion-battery/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/business/batteries/c... Mechanization makes sense in much of the world because there is a high up front cost, but the ongoing costs are dominated by energy and maintenance costs. If those costs are higher than the general labor cost then why would you mechanize? Congo has been dominated by civil war for a long time, that generally depresses the cost of labor.

chronic193 9y ago

> A great many of Apple's customers care a lot about this kind of thing. And an even greater many of Apple customers do not care about those things. The number one deciding factor for many people in the world is how much the monthly payment will be. Full stop.

as1mov 9y ago

> A great many of Apple's customers care a lot about this kind of thing. For my own sanity, I'll assume this is sarcasm.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
dilippkumar 9y ago
I'm an apple customer. I care a lot about this kind of thing. It's one of the reasons I'm happy to be locked into the brand.
- ReverseCold 9y ago
  I'd almost be willing to argue that if an opinion appears on HN, it is likely to not be representative of the relevant population (especially for consumer goods like iPhones).
- as1mov 9y ago
  I'd reckon a vast majority of the users in the real world don't give a shit about it, people don't buy iPhone's because they care about privacy or child labor, they buy it because everyone else is buying it too.
  - innagadadavida 9y ago
    Activist groups are making people give a shit about these issues. Maybe majority of the customers don’t care but if there are a small bunch of customers that are passionate and make a lot of noise and tweet negative stuff then it’s only natural for Apple to do something to protect its brand.

roenxi 9y ago

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, because it probably does, but it would be a surprise to me if using child labour is really cost competitive. I'd expect a couple of small and desperate suppliers. Do you have a link handy? Mining for bulk materials (iron ore, coal, copper, aggregates, etc) is going to be 100% mechanised at the scale that big buyers are interested in. If cobalt is still mined by the vein then maybe child laborers get used because they are smaller, but as battery production is getting serious child labour just won't work. Take gold; you couldn't supply gold to a bullion bank with child labour because they do not produce fast enough. Big gold suppliers are happy with an orebody with grades measured in parts per million, and child cannot move a tonne of dirt as quickly, cheaply or consistently as a machine.

philipkglass 9y ago
I think that you're neglecting legality/stability issues. Artisan mining can eke out a profit at low productivity rates if the laborers are operating in locations that are de jure protected from mining, but de facto have weak law enforcement. That's a big driver of artisan mining of gold, including that using child labor. High-efficiency, high-capital-investment mining processes also require a certain amount of expected stability to justify the up-front costs. If big multinationals think that an armed group is likely to take their equipment at gunpoint, or destroy it, they'll stay away and never be in direct competition with the capital-poor, low-productivity small scale methods.
XR0CSWV3h3kZWg 9y ago
> Mining for bulk materials (iron ore, coal, copper, aggregates, etc) is going to be 100% mechanised at the scale that big buyers are interested in. Why do you assume that? It seems to be not the case for cobalt: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/business/batteries/congo-cobalt-mining-for-lithium-ion-battery/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/business/batteries/c... Mechanization makes sense in much of the world because there is a high up front cost, but the ongoing costs are dominated by energy and maintenance costs. If those costs are higher than the general labor cost then why would you mechanize? Congo has been dominated by civil war for a long time, that generally depresses the cost of labor.