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I'm as critical of the Bush administration as anyone. But I think Condoleezza Rice is just too complicated a person to place her on a one-dimensional "evil scal

I'm as critical of the Bush administration as anyone. But I think Condoleezza Rice is just too complicated a person to place her on a one-dimensional "evil scale" and boycott everything she touches.

philliphaydon 9y ago
I don’t trust her at all. I have more trust in Microsoft than her so I moved to OneDrive the moment it was announced she was joining Dropbox.
- shaki-dora 9y ago
  I'm having trouble finding a single position of her that I agree with. I'm actually listening to Brahms now, to see if maybe her choice of favourite composer is at least sensible. But I do get the impression that she's the kind of person that one can have a deep discussion with even while disagreeing; that her positions, while wrong, are within the realm of possibilities, especially given her rather impressive biography. In other words: she's frequently wrong, but she's not batshit crazy and filled with hate like the current administration. On a more practical note: I doubt that a board member has the power needed to single-handedly set company policy in the way implied by the criticism. If anything, her appointment is more of a symptom of the problem. I guess it is cooperation with the national security apparatus people are worried about? With the increased scrutiny post-Snowden, especially in the EU, I'm not sure how much leeway companies have left, anyway. Yes: Dropbox almost certainly cooperates when presented with a "National Security Letter". But I would take Rice to actually be more concerned about limiting her liability than, say, Yahoo, and push back at requests that are in legally grey areas.
  - gurkendoktor 9y ago
    > In other words: she's frequently wrong, but she's not batshit crazy and filled with hate like the current administration. Is it really better if an intelligent person willingly helps start the Iraq war than if an hateful person does so on a whim? I find it hard to decide what's scarier. I've stopped using Dropbox when they hired her, but not because I think there are practical implications for users. Rather, I wish that the IT community would finally, please, start thinking about ethics.
    - rocqua 9y ago
      Yes, it is a lot better if an intelligent person willingly helps start that war. Intelligent people tend to be rational; they can be reasoned with. This means you might be able to convince them to change their mind. You can talk with them and figure out what is going on. You can explain to them why you disagree with their actions. The real distinction that matters is how stubborn someone is, or how convinced they are that they are right. One might be stubborn out of hate, one might be stubborn out of pride (I loudly claimed X, so I must to all I can to show X is right, no matter what happens), or one might be stubborn out of 'true belief'. Such stubbornness is scary. Notably, it is scary no matter whether you agree with them or not. Such stubbornness might help accelerate change if they are exactly right, but there is no room for error.
      - gurkendoktor 9y ago
        Good point about stubbornness, but rationality is not the same as benevolence. You can have rational, even entertaining discussions about the way in which you ruin things for your own self-interest. I have a hard time believing that anyone in the Bush administration was acting in good faith and invaded a country because nobody raised a solid counter-argument in time.
        rocqua 9y ago
        Even people acting out of self-interest can be reasoned or at least bargained with. You can't do that with a 'true believer'.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- bad_user 9y ago
  Moving to Microsoft due to Condoleezza Rice being hired by Dropbox makes absolutely no sense. I'm not a US citizen, so I don't know about Condoleezza Rice and personally I don't care that much. But I do care about: 1. the Halloween documents 2. their NSA partnership 3. them being happy about censoring content on China's whims, which allegedly is also affecting international users 4. Windows 10 being a privacy nightmare 5. their ongoing racketeering practices, forcing a tax on Android phone makers for patents Yes, please lecture me on how other companies are doing it too, blah, blah, I don't care as these are things that have a measurable impact on my everyday life. Don't get me wrong, I'm actually not boycotting Microsoft, I just choose not to use them given the choice. And I would use OneDrive given its price, if it would be reliable, but it isn't. I tried it multiple times actually, always noticing unacceptable limitations or bugs. And so your choice is dubious at best.
  - acct1771 9y ago
    Halloween documents?
    - bad_user 9y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween_documents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween_documents
      - oblio 9y ago
        That was in 1998, give it a break. I'm not saying that they're perfect now, but they're definitely better :)
        bad_user 9y ago
        Oh right, the "Microsoft changed" meme. 4 out of those 5 points are ongoing and highlight that in fact Microsoft has not changed, following the same pattern. Plus I don't really care that it happened in 1998. Can't forgive that. Sorry. In society when people hurt other people, usually relationships get broken indefinitely, we don't really forgive unless it's about family or close friends. I don't see why companies should be any less different. As they say, don't do the crime, if you can't do the time. Maybe companies should think twice before doing shit.

I'm as critical of the Bush administration as anyone. But I think Condoleezza Rice is just too complicated a person to place her on a one-dimensional "evil scale" and boycott everything she touches.

philliphaydon 9y ago

I don’t trust her at all. I have more trust in Microsoft than her so I moved to OneDrive the moment it was announced she was joining Dropbox.

shaki-dora 9y ago
I'm having trouble finding a single position of her that I agree with. I'm actually listening to Brahms now, to see if maybe her choice of favourite composer is at least sensible. But I do get the impression that she's the kind of person that one can have a deep discussion with even while disagreeing; that her positions, while wrong, are within the realm of possibilities, especially given her rather impressive biography. In other words: she's frequently wrong, but she's not batshit crazy and filled with hate like the current administration. On a more practical note: I doubt that a board member has the power needed to single-handedly set company policy in the way implied by the criticism. If anything, her appointment is more of a symptom of the problem. I guess it is cooperation with the national security apparatus people are worried about? With the increased scrutiny post-Snowden, especially in the EU, I'm not sure how much leeway companies have left, anyway. Yes: Dropbox almost certainly cooperates when presented with a "National Security Letter". But I would take Rice to actually be more concerned about limiting her liability than, say, Yahoo, and push back at requests that are in legally grey areas.
- gurkendoktor 9y ago
  > In other words: she's frequently wrong, but she's not batshit crazy and filled with hate like the current administration. Is it really better if an intelligent person willingly helps start the Iraq war than if an hateful person does so on a whim? I find it hard to decide what's scarier. I've stopped using Dropbox when they hired her, but not because I think there are practical implications for users. Rather, I wish that the IT community would finally, please, start thinking about ethics.
  - rocqua 9y ago
    Yes, it is a lot better if an intelligent person willingly helps start that war. Intelligent people tend to be rational; they can be reasoned with. This means you might be able to convince them to change their mind. You can talk with them and figure out what is going on. You can explain to them why you disagree with their actions. The real distinction that matters is how stubborn someone is, or how convinced they are that they are right. One might be stubborn out of hate, one might be stubborn out of pride (I loudly claimed X, so I must to all I can to show X is right, no matter what happens), or one might be stubborn out of 'true belief'. Such stubbornness is scary. Notably, it is scary no matter whether you agree with them or not. Such stubbornness might help accelerate change if they are exactly right, but there is no room for error.
    - gurkendoktor 9y ago
      Good point about stubbornness, but rationality is not the same as benevolence. You can have rational, even entertaining discussions about the way in which you ruin things for your own self-interest. I have a hard time believing that anyone in the Bush administration was acting in good faith and invaded a country because nobody raised a solid counter-argument in time.
      - rocqua 9y ago
        Even people acting out of self-interest can be reasoned or at least bargained with. You can't do that with a 'true believer'.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
bad_user 9y ago
Moving to Microsoft due to Condoleezza Rice being hired by Dropbox makes absolutely no sense. I'm not a US citizen, so I don't know about Condoleezza Rice and personally I don't care that much. But I do care about: 1. the Halloween documents 2. their NSA partnership 3. them being happy about censoring content on China's whims, which allegedly is also affecting international users 4. Windows 10 being a privacy nightmare 5. their ongoing racketeering practices, forcing a tax on Android phone makers for patents Yes, please lecture me on how other companies are doing it too, blah, blah, I don't care as these are things that have a measurable impact on my everyday life. Don't get me wrong, I'm actually not boycotting Microsoft, I just choose not to use them given the choice. And I would use OneDrive given its price, if it would be reliable, but it isn't. I tried it multiple times actually, always noticing unacceptable limitations or bugs. And so your choice is dubious at best.
- acct1771 9y ago
  Halloween documents?
  - bad_user 9y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween_documents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween_documents
    - oblio 9y ago
      That was in 1998, give it a break. I'm not saying that they're perfect now, but they're definitely better :)
      - bad_user 9y ago
        Oh right, the "Microsoft changed" meme. 4 out of those 5 points are ongoing and highlight that in fact Microsoft has not changed, following the same pattern. Plus I don't really care that it happened in 1998. Can't forgive that. Sorry. In society when people hurt other people, usually relationships get broken indefinitely, we don't really forgive unless it's about family or close friends. I don't see why companies should be any less different. As they say, don't do the crime, if you can't do the time. Maybe companies should think twice before doing shit.