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> It just needs restraint and better web development with existing standard technologies, and ideally a strong taboo on bloated web-sites. Restraint can't appe

by Agebor 9y ago

> It just needs restraint and better web development with existing standard technologies, and ideally a strong taboo on bloated web-sites. Restraint can't appear out of nowhere, especially when bloating the website frequently works - more ad revenue, more information about existing visitors and potential new customers. These needs won't just disappear, so yes, the problem needs a technical solution.

danieldk 9y ago
Restraint can't appear out of nowhere, especially when bloating the website frequently works - more ad revenue, more information about existing visitors and potential new customers. Rather than pushing for AMP, Google, Bing, etc. could just penalize websites (more heavily) for size in search rankings.
- mrtksn 9y ago
  How this solves anything for the user? The better way is to provide the tech(AMP) so that content that is good for the user can be delivered properly instead of not delivered due to performance. Remember, it's about providing a good experience to the users, it's not about choosing the losers and winners in the industry. The taxi companies are making the same mistake against Uber, they assume that the users are an exploitable resource and want a solution that distributes this resource more "fairly to the businesses". From Uber's perspective, the users are the clientele and the resources are the cars and the drivers. The web tech community is acting like the taxi drivers, angry that their user resource is being taken away.
  - MaxBarraclough 9y ago
    > How this solves anything for the user? Is it not obvious? It would motivate major websites to clean up their act and sort out the bloat problem, with no need for yet another web technology.
    - mrtksn 9y ago
      That's a hypothesis that assumes that the major websites will get motivated until the users get frustrated by the low quality of search results. With AMP it's cheap and quick to implement, how long will it take for the websites to re-implement their codebase and all the tooling to match the performance criteria? Anyway, you're missing the point that I'm trying to make here: It's about the user's experience, it's not about the user's distribution to businesses. It's not your god given right to have users and make money.
      - MaxBarraclough 9y ago
        > assumes that the major websites will get motivated until the users get frustrated by the low quality of search results. Fair point - changes to Google's rankings apply more pressure to small websites than to established ones. > it's not about the user's distribution to businesses. It's not your god given right to have users and make money. What?
        mrtksn 9y ago
        >What? What?
        MaxBarraclough 9y ago
        Well, what are you trying to say? Why are you telling me "It's not your god given right to have users and make money"? Why do you think this has any connection to our conversation?
        mrtksn 9y ago
        Why do you think that web businesses are complaining about AMP but not the users? I'm yet to see a user that's not happy with AMP. The web community acts as if the users are a commodity like oil and Google just made a change in its flow and now begging Google to make it flow like before to accommodate their business setup and promising that from now on they will be nicer to the commodity and store it in golden barrels. I just don't buy it.
  - detaro 9y ago
    Measuring site speed and using that as an indicator does not preclude also providing tech (AMP) as a guidance for sites that need help with it, while rewarding those that already have fast and lean sites without it/giving them the freedom to not use AMP without negative impact.

by Agebor 9y ago

danieldk 9y ago

Restraint can't appear out of nowhere, especially when bloating the website frequently works - more ad revenue, more information about existing visitors and potential new customers. Rather than pushing for AMP, Google, Bing, etc. could just penalize websites (more heavily) for size in search rankings.

mrtksn 9y ago
How this solves anything for the user? The better way is to provide the tech(AMP) so that content that is good for the user can be delivered properly instead of not delivered due to performance. Remember, it's about providing a good experience to the users, it's not about choosing the losers and winners in the industry. The taxi companies are making the same mistake against Uber, they assume that the users are an exploitable resource and want a solution that distributes this resource more "fairly to the businesses". From Uber's perspective, the users are the clientele and the resources are the cars and the drivers. The web tech community is acting like the taxi drivers, angry that their user resource is being taken away.
- MaxBarraclough 9y ago
  > How this solves anything for the user? Is it not obvious? It would motivate major websites to clean up their act and sort out the bloat problem, with no need for yet another web technology.
  - mrtksn 9y ago
    That's a hypothesis that assumes that the major websites will get motivated until the users get frustrated by the low quality of search results. With AMP it's cheap and quick to implement, how long will it take for the websites to re-implement their codebase and all the tooling to match the performance criteria? Anyway, you're missing the point that I'm trying to make here: It's about the user's experience, it's not about the user's distribution to businesses. It's not your god given right to have users and make money.
    - MaxBarraclough 9y ago
      > assumes that the major websites will get motivated until the users get frustrated by the low quality of search results. Fair point - changes to Google's rankings apply more pressure to small websites than to established ones. > it's not about the user's distribution to businesses. It's not your god given right to have users and make money. What?
      - mrtksn 9y ago
        >What? What?
        MaxBarraclough 9y ago
        Well, what are you trying to say? Why are you telling me "It's not your god given right to have users and make money"? Why do you think this has any connection to our conversation?
        mrtksn 9y ago
        Why do you think that web businesses are complaining about AMP but not the users? I'm yet to see a user that's not happy with AMP. The web community acts as if the users are a commodity like oil and Google just made a change in its flow and now begging Google to make it flow like before to accommodate their business setup and promising that from now on they will be nicer to the commodity and store it in golden barrels. I just don't buy it.
- detaro 9y ago
  Measuring site speed and using that as an indicator does not preclude also providing tech (AMP) as a guidance for sites that need help with it, while rewarding those that already have fast and lean sites without it/giving them the freedom to not use AMP without negative impact.