3 ms·

I’m not saying that obesity does not come from eating too much and/or eating the wrong type of food. I’m talking about the mechanisms that drive this behavior,

by tobr 9y ago

I’m not saying that obesity does not come from eating too much and/or eating the wrong type of food. I’m talking about the mechanisms that drive this behavior, and what it takes to beat them. Willpower is not enough to beat actual, chronic/morbid obesity. The only known solution is surgery. Your comments are bordering on fat-shaming, which I find completely unacceptable.

BrandoElFollito 9y ago
My comments are not bordering on fat-shaming, they are fat-shaming. Not the "ha ha ha, look at this guy, gross" fat-shaming, but the "stop lying to yourself and publicly expressing the fact that I should treat you in a special way" fat-shaming. I understand that not everyone has will power. I understand that this means that these people will be overweight. What I do not understand is that we need to be extra careful with their feelings, not offend anyone and treat the whole thing as if it was normal. I find it unacceptable that a life posture which is driven, in the overwhelming number of cases, by laziness and treating one's body as a trashbin is supposed to be approached with special care. 2% of this population will have the mental disease which does not allow them to actually take care about themselves. I honestly pity them (see below). The others actively and consciously act towards their obesity. This is the same as with cigarettes: you are free to smoke (away from me) but please do not beg for my tax euros later when you have a cancer derived from that. Or expect that I will live with the cigarette smell. Or that I will fly with half of your body on mine, because you are "weight impaired". Before the gates of hell open, a few remarks: - I am profoundly for a social state, like we have in France. I am happy to pay taxes so that people who are unfairly hit by life have the same chance as i have to live a normal life. I always had this state of mind, and now even more with a handicapped wife and a sick child. - I believe that a mature person has to face the music: if you want to go for mountain climbing and freeze at 8000 m in winter on that difficult slope, this a choice of yours. If you eat like a hippo, well this is your choice as well so do not be offended if you need to go to a zoo to get an x-ray (a case of a few years ago). - Some people are just unlucky in life and we should do whatever we can to help these people. Unfortunately, the vast majority of overeaters are very vocal about their suffering (between two burgers) and it silences the minority who actually has a problem. This minority takes the hit. This is horrible, I witness it all the time with my wife who uses a disabled parking because she cannot walk too much (and has other problems) and people are looking at her because she looks normal. Finally about the gastric surgery: if you pay for it, no problem. This is not going to change your mind and your children will probably be overweight (or not, I hope not). If I have to pay for this comfort, I do not agree. Too bad for you, you will die earlier because you want to. I will keep that money for the 2% who actually have a disease.
- emodendroket 9y ago
  I "love" this stuff about how fat people need ridicule to snap out of it and stop being fat. Trust me, anybody who is fat is acutely aware of it without your advice. As for your other ideas, by the time you're trying to sort out worthies you don't actually have a social state in any meaningful sense. You can find some fault with most people. "Why did you work in a mine when you knew it could cause black lung? Why did you spend so much time at the computer if you didn't want RSI? You wouldn't have rabies if you'd avoided rabid animals." You get the idea.
  - BrandoElFollito 9y ago
    I am not ridiculing anyone, I just do not want any special treatment for someone who willingly gets into that state. Try to spend a intercontinental flight next to this poor 170 kg guy as I did once and you may agree that - because they decided to be fat - they should pay two places in order to accommodate everyone. BTW, I was 30 kg overweight. Then decided not to be anymore. "Why did you work in a mine when you knew it could cause black lung?" - because I had to in order to bring money for my family. I have in very high esteem such people. As you say, you get the idea. "Why did you willingly eat nasty stuff knowing what will happen, and you absolutely did not have to because you live in a country where you can get healthy (= normal, not some bio stuff) food?" - that's harder to explain. But still - this is a choice, we are free people, just do not come later stating that "you should understand, I have all these reasons not to be on time". Sorry, overweight, to get back to the main thread.
    - emodendroket 9y ago
      It might be a little harder to explain why it was necessary that you play Starcraft until you get tendonitis; should we also deny treatment to that guy? Maybe we should deny treatment for venereal disease because nobody "needs" to have sex with multiple partners. As an American person, I feel it is likely I have encountered at least as many fat people as you have, if not more, so appeals to your personal experience aren't that convincing.

by tobr 9y ago

BrandoElFollito 9y ago

My comments are not bordering on fat-shaming, they are fat-shaming. Not the "ha ha ha, look at this guy, gross" fat-shaming, but the "stop lying to yourself and publicly expressing the fact that I should treat you in a special way" fat-shaming. I understand that not everyone has will power. I understand that this means that these people will be overweight. What I do not understand is that we need to be extra careful with their feelings, not offend anyone and treat the whole thing as if it was normal. I find it unacceptable that a life posture which is driven, in the overwhelming number of cases, by laziness and treating one's body as a trashbin is supposed to be approached with special care. 2% of this population will have the mental disease which does not allow them to actually take care about themselves. I honestly pity them (see below). The others actively and consciously act towards their obesity. This is the same as with cigarettes: you are free to smoke (away from me) but please do not beg for my tax euros later when you have a cancer derived from that. Or expect that I will live with the cigarette smell. Or that I will fly with half of your body on mine, because you are "weight impaired". Before the gates of hell open, a few remarks: - I am profoundly for a social state, like we have in France. I am happy to pay taxes so that people who are unfairly hit by life have the same chance as i have to live a normal life. I always had this state of mind, and now even more with a handicapped wife and a sick child. - I believe that a mature person has to face the music: if you want to go for mountain climbing and freeze at 8000 m in winter on that difficult slope, this a choice of yours. If you eat like a hippo, well this is your choice as well so do not be offended if you need to go to a zoo to get an x-ray (a case of a few years ago). - Some people are just unlucky in life and we should do whatever we can to help these people. Unfortunately, the vast majority of overeaters are very vocal about their suffering (between two burgers) and it silences the minority who actually has a problem. This minority takes the hit. This is horrible, I witness it all the time with my wife who uses a disabled parking because she cannot walk too much (and has other problems) and people are looking at her because she looks normal. Finally about the gastric surgery: if you pay for it, no problem. This is not going to change your mind and your children will probably be overweight (or not, I hope not). If I have to pay for this comfort, I do not agree. Too bad for you, you will die earlier because you want to. I will keep that money for the 2% who actually have a disease.

emodendroket 9y ago
I "love" this stuff about how fat people need ridicule to snap out of it and stop being fat. Trust me, anybody who is fat is acutely aware of it without your advice. As for your other ideas, by the time you're trying to sort out worthies you don't actually have a social state in any meaningful sense. You can find some fault with most people. "Why did you work in a mine when you knew it could cause black lung? Why did you spend so much time at the computer if you didn't want RSI? You wouldn't have rabies if you'd avoided rabid animals." You get the idea.
- BrandoElFollito 9y ago
  I am not ridiculing anyone, I just do not want any special treatment for someone who willingly gets into that state. Try to spend a intercontinental flight next to this poor 170 kg guy as I did once and you may agree that - because they decided to be fat - they should pay two places in order to accommodate everyone. BTW, I was 30 kg overweight. Then decided not to be anymore. "Why did you work in a mine when you knew it could cause black lung?" - because I had to in order to bring money for my family. I have in very high esteem such people. As you say, you get the idea. "Why did you willingly eat nasty stuff knowing what will happen, and you absolutely did not have to because you live in a country where you can get healthy (= normal, not some bio stuff) food?" - that's harder to explain. But still - this is a choice, we are free people, just do not come later stating that "you should understand, I have all these reasons not to be on time". Sorry, overweight, to get back to the main thread.
  - emodendroket 9y ago
    It might be a little harder to explain why it was necessary that you play Starcraft until you get tendonitis; should we also deny treatment to that guy? Maybe we should deny treatment for venereal disease because nobody "needs" to have sex with multiple partners. As an American person, I feel it is likely I have encountered at least as many fat people as you have, if not more, so appeals to your personal experience aren't that convincing.