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> Saying that the URL problem is Google's attempt at taking over the open web is nonsensical. The point isn't that only Google can use AMP. (I agree that many

> Saying that the URL problem is Google's attempt at taking over the open web is nonsensical. The point isn't that only Google can use AMP. (I agree that many people incorrectly think that AMP is Google-only.) The point is that with AMP, you've lost control of your web site. The fact that you've lost control not only to Google, but also to Microsoft, Yahoo Japan, and Baidu doesn't help at all!

dmitrygr 9y ago
> The point is that with AMP, you've lost control of your web site. Did I miss the news article "Armed googlers rampaging wildly and threatening all website owners with violence for noncompliance with AMP guidelines"? Who forces you to use amp?
- donohoe 9y ago
  We are forced by the prominent AMP carousel that shows up in search results that drives meaningful revenue to publishers (but cannibalizes our traffic to the regular page where on a CPM level ads are worth more). If they removed that then AMP would die quickly.
  - dmitrygr 9y ago
    And if environmental regulations were removed, many industries would be better off too (at the cost to the world). As a user I LOVE amp because it loads faster than your crap page and doesn't bug me with interstitials. So yes, if AMP died, you'd better off, at the cost to the users And save me the sob story about how only some publishers suck. I don't care. You all lost our (user) trust with your interstitials and crap ads and sites that took minutes to load. Game over, with many thanks to Google. Our abusive relationship with you is over. We the users hereby walk away and will never take you back. Stomping you feet won't help.
    - AlexandrB 9y ago
      > Our abusive relationship with you is over. We the users hereby walk away and will never take you back. Stomping you feet won't help. This is exactly backwards. I don't want an ad company (Google) serving as a middleman for all my web browsing. The most abusive relationship is the one you have little choice in - and Google is such a huge portion of the web that it's nearly impossible to avoid. Now Google is leveraging the inroads they made with AMP in the web to force it into email as well. To borrow your analogy, this is like letting Exxon Mobil set the environmental regulations for everyone.
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
dragonwriter 9y ago
> The point is that with AMP, you've lost control of your web site. How does Google, etc., caching content and delivering it to users mean that you've lost control of your website?
- dfabulich 9y ago
  "Caching your content," on a google.com URL, makes it their web site, not yours.
  - maccard 9y ago
    I disagree. Using cloud flare doesn’t make your site belong to cloudflare.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - tyingq 9y ago
      Cloudflare doesn't shove a header at the top of your page and JavaScript with unwanted behavior. I mentioned the carousel problem in another comment. But the default behavior is suboptimal too. That injected header has an [x] button. Users expect it to dismiss the header. Instead, it navigates away from YOUR page, back to Google.
    - IanCal 9y ago
      Does cloudflare change all your urls to theirs?
- tyingq 9y ago
  They control the reddest part of your page's heatmap. They inject JavaScript that does whatever they want. If you show up on a carousel result, for example, they inject JavaScript onto YOUR page that makes a left/right swipe navigate to a competitor. There's more, but yes...you've lost control.
ocdtrekkie 9y ago
The main bit of this is that Bing and Baidu HAVE to support AMP, because as Google's competitors, they can't allow Google to have any advantage, even if the solution poisons the Internet. And because Google has 87% of all search traffic, if a site is going to support a solution, it's going to be AMP. Google's playing with nukes here. It's not just people under their domain who are affected, but anyone who wants to stay in the same game as them. Why do other countries look to build nukes? Because the US has them, and if you want to not be taken out by the US, you need them too.

dmitrygr 9y ago

> The point is that with AMP, you've lost control of your web site. Did I miss the news article "Armed googlers rampaging wildly and threatening all website owners with violence for noncompliance with AMP guidelines"? Who forces you to use amp?

donohoe 9y ago
We are forced by the prominent AMP carousel that shows up in search results that drives meaningful revenue to publishers (but cannibalizes our traffic to the regular page where on a CPM level ads are worth more). If they removed that then AMP would die quickly.
- dmitrygr 9y ago
  And if environmental regulations were removed, many industries would be better off too (at the cost to the world). As a user I LOVE amp because it loads faster than your crap page and doesn't bug me with interstitials. So yes, if AMP died, you'd better off, at the cost to the users And save me the sob story about how only some publishers suck. I don't care. You all lost our (user) trust with your interstitials and crap ads and sites that took minutes to load. Game over, with many thanks to Google. Our abusive relationship with you is over. We the users hereby walk away and will never take you back. Stomping you feet won't help.
  - AlexandrB 9y ago
    > Our abusive relationship with you is over. We the users hereby walk away and will never take you back. Stomping you feet won't help. This is exactly backwards. I don't want an ad company (Google) serving as a middleman for all my web browsing. The most abusive relationship is the one you have little choice in - and Google is such a huge portion of the web that it's nearly impossible to avoid. Now Google is leveraging the inroads they made with AMP in the web to force it into email as well. To borrow your analogy, this is like letting Exxon Mobil set the environmental regulations for everyone.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]

dragonwriter 9y ago

> The point is that with AMP, you've lost control of your web site. How does Google, etc., caching content and delivering it to users mean that you've lost control of your website?

dfabulich 9y ago
"Caching your content," on a google.com URL, makes it their web site, not yours.
- maccard 9y ago
  I disagree. Using cloud flare doesn’t make your site belong to cloudflare.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - tyingq 9y ago
    Cloudflare doesn't shove a header at the top of your page and JavaScript with unwanted behavior. I mentioned the carousel problem in another comment. But the default behavior is suboptimal too. That injected header has an [x] button. Users expect it to dismiss the header. Instead, it navigates away from YOUR page, back to Google.
  - IanCal 9y ago
    Does cloudflare change all your urls to theirs?
tyingq 9y ago
They control the reddest part of your page's heatmap. They inject JavaScript that does whatever they want. If you show up on a carousel result, for example, they inject JavaScript onto YOUR page that makes a left/right swipe navigate to a competitor. There's more, but yes...you've lost control.

ocdtrekkie 9y ago

The main bit of this is that Bing and Baidu HAVE to support AMP, because as Google's competitors, they can't allow Google to have any advantage, even if the solution poisons the Internet. And because Google has 87% of all search traffic, if a site is going to support a solution, it's going to be AMP. Google's playing with nukes here. It's not just people under their domain who are affected, but anyone who wants to stay in the same game as them. Why do other countries look to build nukes? Because the US has them, and if you want to not be taken out by the US, you need them too.