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It's a terrible idea. AMP is a shameful attack on the open WWW. AMP is slower than hand-optimized HTML. AMP pages are often hosted on a 3rd party domain, even

It's a terrible idea. AMP is a shameful attack on the open WWW. AMP is slower than hand-optimized HTML. AMP pages are often hosted on a 3rd party domain, even sending the wrong referrers to other sites. AMP is also extremely slow on desktop browsers that have certain ad-blockers installed. If 3rd party scripts don't load, the user gets a blank page for 8 seconds. (Try it if you don't believe me.)

Spivak 9y ago
* But it's faster than HTML that people use in practice. * Sure, but do you really care that users are using your physical servers or just that the content is out there? It's a trade that I think a lot of businesses would be happy to make. Who wouldn't want essentially free hosting complete with ad revenue? * Do you think ad funded sites care about people who have a worse user experience with an ad blocker. I don't disagree that AMP is bad for the open web, but it's not bad for the people publishing with it.
- JoshMnem 9y ago
  If someone is going to implement AMP templates they have the ability to implement better HTML in the templates instead. It does matter that users are on your physical servers. It affects referrers and copied/pasted links, which affect brand recognition and SEO. Using AMP also puts a giant back button on your site that takes users back to the search engine results rather than deeper into your site. Many people do not want that. I don't think that airbnb is an ad-funded site. Even if it were, do ad-funded sites really want a 3rd party dictating how they monetize their sites? If so, I doubt that they are thinking through it all the way and considering the long-term effects.
  - canadianwriter 9y ago
    "If someone is going to implement AMP templates they have the ability to implement better HTML in the templates instead." Not someone. A corporation. Think bigger companies, not tiny one person sites. Just because it's possible doesn't mean they can win the sprint cycle.
    - JoshMnem 9y ago
      How would writing a whole new UI in AMP be easier than cleaning up the current HTML templates or writing new templates in HTML rather than AMP?
- AlexandrB 9y ago
  > I don't disagree that AMP is bad for the open web, but it's not bad for the people publishing with it. I heard the same thing said about Medium and Facebook News. Whatever happened to "fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me".
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- vanadium 9y ago
  Using 1.6/0.8 3G speeds (with 300ms RTT) as the baseline, and specifically targeting a 3s SpeedIndex embarrasses most non-AMP experiences by virtue of the AMP cache underlying the SERPs. These are the terms with which Google's marketing AMP specifically with its own tools for marketers. (To wit: https://testmysite.thinkwithgoogle.com/intl/en-us https://testmysite.thinkwithgoogle.com/intl/en-us) You can get damned close--and even exceed it if you're a minimalist--by throwing every bleeding-edge performance optimization under the sun at it, but nothing is going to stop marketers throwing Adobe's render-blocking VisitorAPI in the <head> to offset many of those optimizations, either. (Seriously, and you can't async it, either. Marketers get angry and Adobe doesn't support it.) The advantage of AMP dissipates rapidly as one tests in 4G and low-end cable speeds, however. At that point, hitting a 1s-2s SpeedIndex isn't terribly difficult if you're using front-end performance best practices, even with a framework bootstrapping itself to the DOM.
- shard972 9y ago
  > * Do you think ad funded sites care about people who have a worse user experience with an ad blocker. Yep, because as that demographic becomes the majority they will then be forced to move from an ad funded model solely or perish.
rockdiesel 9y ago
> AMP is also extremely slow on desktop browsers that have certain ad-blockers installed. If 3rd party scripts don't load, the user gets a blank page for 8 seconds. (Try it if you don't believe me.) AMP stands for Accelerated Mobile Pages. Being extremely slow on desktop browsers with certain ad-blockers seems like an edge case of the least importance.
- JoshMnem 9y ago
  Extremely slow is an understatement. It's literally 8 seconds. Loading 3rd party JavaScript without restriction is extremely unsafe and not an edge case. It's basic Web-browsing safety.
  - rockdiesel 9y ago
    Is it shitty and unsafe? Yes, I'm in agreement. But the focus of the project is on the mobile experience. Complaining about the lack of optimization on the desktop experience, with an ad-blocker to boot, for a mobile specific project is an edge case, in my opinion.
    - JoshMnem 9y ago
      If it makes the Web terrible for desktop users who block 3rd party JS from loading, then it's not an edge case, regardless of the name.

Spivak 9y ago

* But it's faster than HTML that people use in practice. * Sure, but do you really care that users are using your physical servers or just that the content is out there? It's a trade that I think a lot of businesses would be happy to make. Who wouldn't want essentially free hosting complete with ad revenue? * Do you think ad funded sites care about people who have a worse user experience with an ad blocker. I don't disagree that AMP is bad for the open web, but it's not bad for the people publishing with it.

JoshMnem 9y ago
If someone is going to implement AMP templates they have the ability to implement better HTML in the templates instead. It does matter that users are on your physical servers. It affects referrers and copied/pasted links, which affect brand recognition and SEO. Using AMP also puts a giant back button on your site that takes users back to the search engine results rather than deeper into your site. Many people do not want that. I don't think that airbnb is an ad-funded site. Even if it were, do ad-funded sites really want a 3rd party dictating how they monetize their sites? If so, I doubt that they are thinking through it all the way and considering the long-term effects.
- canadianwriter 9y ago
  "If someone is going to implement AMP templates they have the ability to implement better HTML in the templates instead." Not someone. A corporation. Think bigger companies, not tiny one person sites. Just because it's possible doesn't mean they can win the sprint cycle.
  - JoshMnem 9y ago
    How would writing a whole new UI in AMP be easier than cleaning up the current HTML templates or writing new templates in HTML rather than AMP?
AlexandrB 9y ago
> I don't disagree that AMP is bad for the open web, but it's not bad for the people publishing with it. I heard the same thing said about Medium and Facebook News. Whatever happened to "fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me".
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
vanadium 9y ago
Using 1.6/0.8 3G speeds (with 300ms RTT) as the baseline, and specifically targeting a 3s SpeedIndex embarrasses most non-AMP experiences by virtue of the AMP cache underlying the SERPs. These are the terms with which Google's marketing AMP specifically with its own tools for marketers. (To wit: https://testmysite.thinkwithgoogle.com/intl/en-us https://testmysite.thinkwithgoogle.com/intl/en-us) You can get damned close--and even exceed it if you're a minimalist--by throwing every bleeding-edge performance optimization under the sun at it, but nothing is going to stop marketers throwing Adobe's render-blocking VisitorAPI in the <head> to offset many of those optimizations, either. (Seriously, and you can't async it, either. Marketers get angry and Adobe doesn't support it.) The advantage of AMP dissipates rapidly as one tests in 4G and low-end cable speeds, however. At that point, hitting a 1s-2s SpeedIndex isn't terribly difficult if you're using front-end performance best practices, even with a framework bootstrapping itself to the DOM.
shard972 9y ago
> * Do you think ad funded sites care about people who have a worse user experience with an ad blocker. Yep, because as that demographic becomes the majority they will then be forced to move from an ad funded model solely or perish.

rockdiesel 9y ago

> AMP is also extremely slow on desktop browsers that have certain ad-blockers installed. If 3rd party scripts don't load, the user gets a blank page for 8 seconds. (Try it if you don't believe me.) AMP stands for Accelerated Mobile Pages. Being extremely slow on desktop browsers with certain ad-blockers seems like an edge case of the least importance.

JoshMnem 9y ago
Extremely slow is an understatement. It's literally 8 seconds. Loading 3rd party JavaScript without restriction is extremely unsafe and not an edge case. It's basic Web-browsing safety.
- rockdiesel 9y ago
  Is it shitty and unsafe? Yes, I'm in agreement. But the focus of the project is on the mobile experience. Complaining about the lack of optimization on the desktop experience, with an ad-blocker to boot, for a mobile specific project is an edge case, in my opinion.
  - JoshMnem 9y ago
    If it makes the Web terrible for desktop users who block 3rd party JS from loading, then it's not an edge case, regardless of the name.