6 ms·

What they are saying is that calorie restriction works, but most people are too incompetent to follow through, so need seemingly magical alternative strategies

What they are saying is that calorie restriction works, but most people are too incompetent to follow through, so need seemingly magical alternative strategies to avoid calorie dense food. The danger with this approach is that the average Joe hears the message as "weight is not related to how much you eat (energy/quantity), but what you eat (quality)". That message is a public health danger, yet is becoming the prevailing sentiment for health magazines, supplement marketing, popular lifestyle shows etc.

briancleland 9y ago
Absolutely nothing magical about eating when you are hungry and stopping when you are sated. As long as you avoid unhealthy, unnatural foods (primarily refined carbs) this strategy works just fine. Animals don't have to count calories to avoid obesity, no reason why humans should either.
- nikolaj 9y ago
  Admittedly this is only partially informed, but I am pretty sure most animals don't have access to enough calories to be obese. And those that do (e.g. pets, zoo animals) are (sometimes) kept from obesity due to careful calorie counting by their human caretakers.
  - SketchySeaBeast 9y ago
    I think every labrador retriever on the planet would be 200 lbs if they had their way.
    - trevyn 9y ago
      They also wouldn't be confined to a house or yard.
      - SketchySeaBeast 9y ago
        Even farm dogs do their best to get fat. Either way, that's an indictment of activity level then, and not of food quality.
  - briancleland 9y ago
    Eating is naturally regulated by appetite. That's why appetite and satiation exist. It's difficult to be obese when you eat only unprocessed foods. If you don't believe me, try it out. You might be surprised.
    - SketchySeaBeast 9y ago
      You didn't address their point that zoo animals have to sometimes be kept on diets to remain slim, in spite of their all natural diet. This article seems to think it's a whole gamut of things that keeps these animals thin. http://sciencenordic.com/can-wild-animals-become-overweight http://sciencenordic.com/can-wild-animals-become-overweight Appetite and satiation are far more complex than just "eat until your full and then stop", for instance amensiac patients have been observed to eat waaay more than they should have just because they did remember eating (Rozin et al. (1998)), even they should have by all rights been physically full. There's whole layers of cognitive, emotional, and behavioral patterns with excess food consumption. Personally, I have been able to effectively lose and keep off weight while still enjoying all manner of unnatural foods (Ice cream, McDonald's and candy, oh my).
      - Terr_ 9y ago
        I had success with calorie-counting, and I think part of that came from accidentally co-opting an existing behavior involving bargain-hunting and frugality. Food choices became about avoiding "spending" my calories on "bad deals", avoiding foods which didn't promise enjoyment commensurate to their cost.
        SketchySeaBeast 9y ago
        I did that too - I made sure to get my protein (via protein shakes), but after that just ate what I wanted. I developed the same habit too - I ended up restricting things like rice or pasta because I'd rather "spend" those calories on an ice cream cone.
- SketchySeaBeast 9y ago
  Many animals actively work towards obesity every year before hibernation. They can absolutely gain weight on all natural foods.
  - briancleland 9y ago
    Storing up fat for hibernation is perfectly natural and has no negative effect on the health of the animal. It has nothing to do with obesity as the term is normally used.
- linkmotif 9y ago
  My physiology is so far removed from a wild animal’s it’s not even funny. My ancestors propagated thanks to luck, wit and guile, not their ability to get food and mate like wild animals.
ballenarosada 9y ago
I think the study shows precisely that it's not a public health danger to tell people that.
- cornholio 9y ago
  What exactly is a whole food? Or a non-processed food? Is honey a natural, healthy food? Are nuts and oily seeds better for your weigh than industrial potato chips? Is cold pressed sesame oil not a high calorie food? It's a clear public safety danger to imply the above are healthier than their processed counterparts, and my main beef is with the sensationalist title, that aims right at the "calories are a myth" bandwagon. The study itself is good, if it works, it works.
  - briancleland 9y ago
    Obviously there are degrees of processing, but it's not hard to see that an apple or a carrot or even a steak are fundamentally less processed and more "natural" than a packet of chips, a bar of chocolate or a TV dinner. They are also much healthier.
    - cornholio 9y ago
      This is a good example of prejudice. A TV dinner can be healthy if it contains suficient legumes and low fat meat. And depending on exactly what steak you are proposing and the manner of preparation, it can be significantly more calorie dense and packed with cholesterol and saturated fat. Freezing and preservatives don't significantly alter nutritional value, and there exist low calorie frozen meals specifically formulated for dieters. Highly processed, but much healthier than some very natural wholesome steaks.
  - msla 9y ago
    You're asking questions which go against the bias, and cannot be answered without exposing deficiencies in the appeal to nature the "whole foods are best" ideology is founded on. It's disconcerting to see a fallacy being eaten whole by so many. This page: https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/36/Appeal-to-Nature https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFalla... has this sentence: > There are many natural things that are better than unnatural, but they must be evaluated based on other criteria besides the “naturalness”. which sums up the whole thing nicely.
darpa_escapee 9y ago
Eh, I find it hard to judge people for being human. A solution isn't really a good solution if it's difficult to impossible to implement in practice. This is like saying the solution to addiction is to just stop doing drugs, but people are too incompetent and need magical solutions like rehab and maintenance drugs.

briancleland 9y ago

Absolutely nothing magical about eating when you are hungry and stopping when you are sated. As long as you avoid unhealthy, unnatural foods (primarily refined carbs) this strategy works just fine. Animals don't have to count calories to avoid obesity, no reason why humans should either.

nikolaj 9y ago
Admittedly this is only partially informed, but I am pretty sure most animals don't have access to enough calories to be obese. And those that do (e.g. pets, zoo animals) are (sometimes) kept from obesity due to careful calorie counting by their human caretakers.
- SketchySeaBeast 9y ago
  I think every labrador retriever on the planet would be 200 lbs if they had their way.
  - trevyn 9y ago
    They also wouldn't be confined to a house or yard.
    - SketchySeaBeast 9y ago
      Even farm dogs do their best to get fat. Either way, that's an indictment of activity level then, and not of food quality.
- briancleland 9y ago
  Eating is naturally regulated by appetite. That's why appetite and satiation exist. It's difficult to be obese when you eat only unprocessed foods. If you don't believe me, try it out. You might be surprised.
  - SketchySeaBeast 9y ago
    You didn't address their point that zoo animals have to sometimes be kept on diets to remain slim, in spite of their all natural diet. This article seems to think it's a whole gamut of things that keeps these animals thin. http://sciencenordic.com/can-wild-animals-become-overweight http://sciencenordic.com/can-wild-animals-become-overweight Appetite and satiation are far more complex than just "eat until your full and then stop", for instance amensiac patients have been observed to eat waaay more than they should have just because they did remember eating (Rozin et al. (1998)), even they should have by all rights been physically full. There's whole layers of cognitive, emotional, and behavioral patterns with excess food consumption. Personally, I have been able to effectively lose and keep off weight while still enjoying all manner of unnatural foods (Ice cream, McDonald's and candy, oh my).
    - Terr_ 9y ago
      I had success with calorie-counting, and I think part of that came from accidentally co-opting an existing behavior involving bargain-hunting and frugality. Food choices became about avoiding "spending" my calories on "bad deals", avoiding foods which didn't promise enjoyment commensurate to their cost.
      - SketchySeaBeast 9y ago
        I did that too - I made sure to get my protein (via protein shakes), but after that just ate what I wanted. I developed the same habit too - I ended up restricting things like rice or pasta because I'd rather "spend" those calories on an ice cream cone.
SketchySeaBeast 9y ago
Many animals actively work towards obesity every year before hibernation. They can absolutely gain weight on all natural foods.
- briancleland 9y ago
  Storing up fat for hibernation is perfectly natural and has no negative effect on the health of the animal. It has nothing to do with obesity as the term is normally used.
linkmotif 9y ago
My physiology is so far removed from a wild animal’s it’s not even funny. My ancestors propagated thanks to luck, wit and guile, not their ability to get food and mate like wild animals.

ballenarosada 9y ago

I think the study shows precisely that it's not a public health danger to tell people that.

cornholio 9y ago
What exactly is a whole food? Or a non-processed food? Is honey a natural, healthy food? Are nuts and oily seeds better for your weigh than industrial potato chips? Is cold pressed sesame oil not a high calorie food? It's a clear public safety danger to imply the above are healthier than their processed counterparts, and my main beef is with the sensationalist title, that aims right at the "calories are a myth" bandwagon. The study itself is good, if it works, it works.
- briancleland 9y ago
  Obviously there are degrees of processing, but it's not hard to see that an apple or a carrot or even a steak are fundamentally less processed and more "natural" than a packet of chips, a bar of chocolate or a TV dinner. They are also much healthier.
  - cornholio 9y ago
    This is a good example of prejudice. A TV dinner can be healthy if it contains suficient legumes and low fat meat. And depending on exactly what steak you are proposing and the manner of preparation, it can be significantly more calorie dense and packed with cholesterol and saturated fat. Freezing and preservatives don't significantly alter nutritional value, and there exist low calorie frozen meals specifically formulated for dieters. Highly processed, but much healthier than some very natural wholesome steaks.
- msla 9y ago
  You're asking questions which go against the bias, and cannot be answered without exposing deficiencies in the appeal to nature the "whole foods are best" ideology is founded on. It's disconcerting to see a fallacy being eaten whole by so many. This page: https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/36/Appeal-to-Nature https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFalla... has this sentence: > There are many natural things that are better than unnatural, but they must be evaluated based on other criteria besides the “naturalness”. which sums up the whole thing nicely.

darpa_escapee 9y ago

Eh, I find it hard to judge people for being human. A solution isn't really a good solution if it's difficult to impossible to implement in practice. This is like saying the solution to addiction is to just stop doing drugs, but people are too incompetent and need magical solutions like rehab and maintenance drugs.