4 ms·

First of all, I completely agree that the E class is more on par with the Model S, and the S class is significantly more luxurious. With that said, I do think

by nilkn 9y ago

First of all, I completely agree that the E class is more on par with the Model S, and the S class is significantly more luxurious. With that said, I do think it's interesting that the Model S has S class pricing and is outselling the S class despite being decidedly much less luxurious. I'd say many people spending upwards of $85k-$100k+ on a car don't just want luxury -- they want social status. And right now a brand new upgraded Model S is more attention-grabbing than a Mercedes S class.

jacquesm 9y ago
It's mostly a tax issue. The operating costs of a Tesla can be much lower because of very favorable tax breaks, which is one of the main reasons the Tesla sold so well in Norway and The Netherlands (my home country), and why so many of them are fleet (lease) vehicles. Taxis alone account for a substantial fraction of all those sales. We'll see if that trend continues in 2018, there have been some substantial changes in the taxes regarding electrical cars in NL, not sure about Norway.
- nilkn 9y ago
  I didn't fully appreciate the significance of that point at first but now I think I do. It appears that in Norway in particular a Model S can be significantly cheaper than a 7 series or S class.
  - YSFEJ4SWJUVU6 9y ago
    Most definitely in Norway, Model S is significantly cheaper than E-class or 5-series, too.
013a 9y ago
Really, Price is the only thing you can compare. If you want complete luxury: S-Class, A7/A8, or 7-Series are going to be decidedly better in every way, at a similar price bracket. To be honest, Tesla doesn't even compete in this category. If you want the status symbol: Maybe Tesla is the best. You'd also probably be cross-shopping a Panamera or maybe an XJ. If you want performance: The best will be an E63S, RS5 (kind of a different category), or M5. A P100D is stupidly fast off the line, but most enthusiasts don't put it in the same class as high-end german performance cars due to driving dynamics and the price. It gets an honorable mention. If you want tech: Tesla, Audi, or the Cadillac CT6. Tesla wins on automated driving, but Cadillac isn't far behind at all. Audi has some of that, but their interior tech is easily on-par with Tesla when you option it out. If you want all of them: You'll need to go upmarket. The RS7 would qualify, especially the refreshed 2019 model, but really you'll have to enter "optioned out Porsche" territory ($150k+) and even then you'll make sacrifices in the tech department. There are a few generalities you can make, though: First, BMW isn't as competitive as they used to be. MB and Audi have recently started outpacing them in most categories. Second, Tesla definitely isn't competitive at its price bracket without tax incentives, unless all you care about is how other people perceive you, which can't really be quantified like the other categories.
- OhDagny 9y ago
  This seems like obsolete dirtburner Car and Driver logic based on soon-to-be-outmoded standards. Same antipattern would appear with aerodynamic designs to save fuel in the 80s. The Car and Driver old stodgies would complain about the nontraditional styling, despite the clear direction and engineering advantages. Reality eventually overcame the car review collective delusion. Teslas are the only car that fundamentally is a totally different driving experience than every other dirtburner you listed. You can tell the second it almost magically and constantly accelerates. Faster than supercars for 1/10th the price in real world driving (people buy HP and drive Torque, remember?). Sure the economics of the battery mean there isn't a spare $50,000 for the interior. Oh, and just wait for the maintenance bill differentials. Those high-end dirtburners assume you don't mind $5,000/year in repairs and maintenance. They hardly even engineer them for reliability.
kleiba 9y ago
It's probably just the novelty / cool factor. People buy Teslas mostly as a second car, while that's probably a rare thing to do with an S-class Merc.

by nilkn 9y ago

jacquesm 9y ago

It's mostly a tax issue. The operating costs of a Tesla can be much lower because of very favorable tax breaks, which is one of the main reasons the Tesla sold so well in Norway and The Netherlands (my home country), and why so many of them are fleet (lease) vehicles. Taxis alone account for a substantial fraction of all those sales. We'll see if that trend continues in 2018, there have been some substantial changes in the taxes regarding electrical cars in NL, not sure about Norway.

nilkn 9y ago
I didn't fully appreciate the significance of that point at first but now I think I do. It appears that in Norway in particular a Model S can be significantly cheaper than a 7 series or S class.
- YSFEJ4SWJUVU6 9y ago
  Most definitely in Norway, Model S is significantly cheaper than E-class or 5-series, too.

013a 9y ago

Really, Price is the only thing you can compare. If you want complete luxury: S-Class, A7/A8, or 7-Series are going to be decidedly better in every way, at a similar price bracket. To be honest, Tesla doesn't even compete in this category. If you want the status symbol: Maybe Tesla is the best. You'd also probably be cross-shopping a Panamera or maybe an XJ. If you want performance: The best will be an E63S, RS5 (kind of a different category), or M5. A P100D is stupidly fast off the line, but most enthusiasts don't put it in the same class as high-end german performance cars due to driving dynamics and the price. It gets an honorable mention. If you want tech: Tesla, Audi, or the Cadillac CT6. Tesla wins on automated driving, but Cadillac isn't far behind at all. Audi has some of that, but their interior tech is easily on-par with Tesla when you option it out. If you want all of them: You'll need to go upmarket. The RS7 would qualify, especially the refreshed 2019 model, but really you'll have to enter "optioned out Porsche" territory ($150k+) and even then you'll make sacrifices in the tech department. There are a few generalities you can make, though: First, BMW isn't as competitive as they used to be. MB and Audi have recently started outpacing them in most categories. Second, Tesla definitely isn't competitive at its price bracket without tax incentives, unless all you care about is how other people perceive you, which can't really be quantified like the other categories.

OhDagny 9y ago
This seems like obsolete dirtburner Car and Driver logic based on soon-to-be-outmoded standards. Same antipattern would appear with aerodynamic designs to save fuel in the 80s. The Car and Driver old stodgies would complain about the nontraditional styling, despite the clear direction and engineering advantages. Reality eventually overcame the car review collective delusion. Teslas are the only car that fundamentally is a totally different driving experience than every other dirtburner you listed. You can tell the second it almost magically and constantly accelerates. Faster than supercars for 1/10th the price in real world driving (people buy HP and drive Torque, remember?). Sure the economics of the battery mean there isn't a spare $50,000 for the interior. Oh, and just wait for the maintenance bill differentials. Those high-end dirtburners assume you don't mind $5,000/year in repairs and maintenance. They hardly even engineer them for reliability.

kleiba 9y ago

It's probably just the novelty / cool factor. People buy Teslas mostly as a second car, while that's probably a rare thing to do with an S-class Merc.