8 ms·

Men are only about 40% of college students. Male unemployment is higher. I have no data on the others.

scarface74 9y ago
That’s not what I asked. Can you find studies where equally qualified white men were denied opportunities, controlling for all other variables suffered harm because of their color or gender? I can post studies where the opposite has happened in housing, hiring, and the criminal justice system.
- leereeves 9y ago
  Who would do or fund such a study? Women outnumber men in college by 50%, and almost nobody sees a problem with that. Men vastly outnumber women among the homeless, prisoners, accidental deaths, etc, and nobody cares about that either. Nobody in power cares enough about less fortunate men to support any studies that might show what obstacles they face.
  - JoeAltmaier 9y ago
    I see it around a fraction of 1%? http://time.com/4064665/women-college-degree/ http://time.com/4064665/women-college-degree/
    - leereeves 9y ago
      That's because of the Baby Boomers. Among people in college now, nearly 60% of students/graduates are women. If nothing is done to increase male enrollment, the statistic you quoted (% of population with college degrees) will change to match this inequality fairly quickly.
      - scarface74 9y ago
        Again what is suppose to "be done"? Government intervention? Affirmative Action for the oppressed male? Whatever happened to the Reaganesque "pulling yourself up by your bootstraps" and "rugged individuslism"? Conservatives have been telling minority and women that for years.
        leereeves 9y ago
        Apparently I've been censored and rate-limited, so I can't continue this discussion. Why not? Leftists want equality of outcome, right? Why does that exclude college enrollment, unemployment, dangerous work, etc? Response to below: Would people on HN really be all over these studies? Or would they be censored as I have been? And I just posted a study for you in our other comment chain, since you demand it so persistently. I hope you're reading these edits...
        dragonwriter 9y ago
        > Leftists want equality of outcome, right? Not really, no. Leftists are, however, less inclined than those on the opposite side of the political spectrum to dismiss wide discrepancies in outcome as being results of differences in free uncoerced choices rather than inequality of opportunity (which the right didn't even accept as a value until the left made it popular enough that they invented the "opportunity vs. outcome" argument to adopt in name while dismissing it in substance).
        scarface74 9y ago
        I can't tell, are you now arguing that the "liberal agenda" was right all along? If so, why are you posting the opposite? We've been going back and forth for days but you still haven't posted any latitudinal studies to back your claims of the oppression of the White Male. There are plenty of conservative think tanks that would have been all over studies that showed such data if it existed. I would think that HN being full of engineers and other left brain types would actually take the time to read such studies and give them a fair shot.
  - scarface74 9y ago
    So now without any studies showing a casualty between less men being in the workforce or fewer going to college being caused by some sort of societal discrimination, we are suppose to believe you? None of the conservative think tanks are willing to do a study?
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    > Women outnumber men in college by 50% 56% to 44% as of this past fall, and projected to reach 57% to 43% by 2026. [0] That's a little over 25%, not 50%. > almost nobody sees a problem with that. Lots of people see it as a symptom of a major problem.[0, again] > Men vastly outnumber women among the homeless This is, IIRC, basically entirely because virtually the entire set of homeless veterans is male, and homeless veterans are a full third of the homeless. Again, homeless among veterans (which, again, is basically the entire source of the overrepresentation of men among the homeless) is widely perceived as a serious problem. > prisoners Well, white people might not care about this; but the imprisonment of black men and what it has done to the black community has been an intense concern of that community. [0] https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2017/08/why-men-are-the-new-college-minority/536103/ https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2017/08/why-me...
    - leereeves 9y ago
      True, I exaggerate a bit when I say "nobody" cares; I mean: Do these questions come up in Presidential campaigns? Are they debated in Congress? Is there any funding to address these issues? Are there massive organized protests calling for change? The wage gap is smaller than the education gap, and in that case the answer to all these questions is "Yes". There are some people working to bring attention to these issues, but they've had limited success and face quite a bit of opposition.
      - scarface74 9y ago
        White males hold most positions in power in both government, industry, and religion - I'm not making a value judgement, just stating facts - the three most influential parts of society. Who are these powerful forces that are keeping them from rising up?
        deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
        deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
- peoplewindow 9y ago
  Yes, such studies do occur and they do show bias against white men. Typically these are studies that are trying to find bias against women, by anonymising hiring processes. Replacing names on CVs, even voice masking. What they discover instead is that anonymising hiring makes outcomes better for men not women, and then the studies and the anonymisation is canned. Like here: http://blog.interviewing.io/we-built-voice-modulation-to-mask-gender-in-technical-interviews-heres-what-happened/ http://blog.interviewing.io/we-built-voice-modulation-to-mas... But there are others. There were some studies in Australia on this. You can search for them quite easily.
  - scarface74 9y ago
    The link you posted explicitly says Though these trends weren’t statistically significant, I am mentioning them because they were unexpected and definitely something to watch for as we collect more data.

That’s not what I asked. Can you find studies where equally qualified white men were denied opportunities, controlling for all other variables suffered harm because of their color or gender? I can post studies where the opposite has happened in housing, hiring, and the criminal justice system.

leereeves 9y ago
Who would do or fund such a study? Women outnumber men in college by 50%, and almost nobody sees a problem with that. Men vastly outnumber women among the homeless, prisoners, accidental deaths, etc, and nobody cares about that either. Nobody in power cares enough about less fortunate men to support any studies that might show what obstacles they face.
- JoeAltmaier 9y ago
  I see it around a fraction of 1%? http://time.com/4064665/women-college-degree/ http://time.com/4064665/women-college-degree/
  - leereeves 9y ago
    That's because of the Baby Boomers. Among people in college now, nearly 60% of students/graduates are women. If nothing is done to increase male enrollment, the statistic you quoted (% of population with college degrees) will change to match this inequality fairly quickly.
    - scarface74 9y ago
      Again what is suppose to "be done"? Government intervention? Affirmative Action for the oppressed male? Whatever happened to the Reaganesque "pulling yourself up by your bootstraps" and "rugged individuslism"? Conservatives have been telling minority and women that for years.
      - leereeves 9y ago
        Apparently I've been censored and rate-limited, so I can't continue this discussion. Why not? Leftists want equality of outcome, right? Why does that exclude college enrollment, unemployment, dangerous work, etc? Response to below: Would people on HN really be all over these studies? Or would they be censored as I have been? And I just posted a study for you in our other comment chain, since you demand it so persistently. I hope you're reading these edits...
        dragonwriter 9y ago
        > Leftists want equality of outcome, right? Not really, no. Leftists are, however, less inclined than those on the opposite side of the political spectrum to dismiss wide discrepancies in outcome as being results of differences in free uncoerced choices rather than inequality of opportunity (which the right didn't even accept as a value until the left made it popular enough that they invented the "opportunity vs. outcome" argument to adopt in name while dismissing it in substance).
        scarface74 9y ago
        I can't tell, are you now arguing that the "liberal agenda" was right all along? If so, why are you posting the opposite? We've been going back and forth for days but you still haven't posted any latitudinal studies to back your claims of the oppression of the White Male. There are plenty of conservative think tanks that would have been all over studies that showed such data if it existed. I would think that HN being full of engineers and other left brain types would actually take the time to read such studies and give them a fair shot.
- scarface74 9y ago
  So now without any studies showing a casualty between less men being in the workforce or fewer going to college being caused by some sort of societal discrimination, we are suppose to believe you? None of the conservative think tanks are willing to do a study?
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > Women outnumber men in college by 50% 56% to 44% as of this past fall, and projected to reach 57% to 43% by 2026. [0] That's a little over 25%, not 50%. > almost nobody sees a problem with that. Lots of people see it as a symptom of a major problem.[0, again] > Men vastly outnumber women among the homeless This is, IIRC, basically entirely because virtually the entire set of homeless veterans is male, and homeless veterans are a full third of the homeless. Again, homeless among veterans (which, again, is basically the entire source of the overrepresentation of men among the homeless) is widely perceived as a serious problem. > prisoners Well, white people might not care about this; but the imprisonment of black men and what it has done to the black community has been an intense concern of that community. [0] https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2017/08/why-men-are-the-new-college-minority/536103/ https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2017/08/why-me...
  - leereeves 9y ago
    True, I exaggerate a bit when I say "nobody" cares; I mean: Do these questions come up in Presidential campaigns? Are they debated in Congress? Is there any funding to address these issues? Are there massive organized protests calling for change? The wage gap is smaller than the education gap, and in that case the answer to all these questions is "Yes". There are some people working to bring attention to these issues, but they've had limited success and face quite a bit of opposition.
    - scarface74 9y ago
      White males hold most positions in power in both government, industry, and religion - I'm not making a value judgement, just stating facts - the three most influential parts of society. Who are these powerful forces that are keeping them from rising up?
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
peoplewindow 9y ago
Yes, such studies do occur and they do show bias against white men. Typically these are studies that are trying to find bias against women, by anonymising hiring processes. Replacing names on CVs, even voice masking. What they discover instead is that anonymising hiring makes outcomes better for men not women, and then the studies and the anonymisation is canned. Like here: http://blog.interviewing.io/we-built-voice-modulation-to-mask-gender-in-technical-interviews-heres-what-happened/ http://blog.interviewing.io/we-built-voice-modulation-to-mas... But there are others. There were some studies in Australia on this. You can search for them quite easily.
- scarface74 9y ago
  The link you posted explicitly says Though these trends weren’t statistically significant, I am mentioning them because they were unexpected and definitely something to watch for as we collect more data.