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The idea that the lack of a rigorous specific study indicates supplementation doesn't work is flawed. The entire Eastern system of medicine evolved based on sha
by crystaln 9y ago
The idea that the lack of a rigorous specific study indicates supplementation doesn't work is flawed. The entire Eastern system of medicine evolved based on shared experience and knowledge, and ample experience exists with many supplements to support their use, even if not the sort of rigorous evidence we might like. Sure this opens the gate to fraud and self-deception, however the level of personal experience shared on the internet is unprecedented in human history and certainly worth referring to when deciding on the efficacy of supplements.
Further, scientific studies are very often flawed. I trust how I feel at least as much as I trust a study.
- ceejayoz 9y ago> the level of personal experience shared on the internet is unprecedented in human history and certainly worth referring to when deciding on the efficacy of supplements Similarly, we can safely conclude that vaccines cause autism, ghosts are real, and the moon landings didn't happen.
- crystaln 9y agoHow many of our colleagues troll the internet for anecdotal evidence about recreational drugs or nootropics or Rsi cures. Not all knowledge has been established by science. In fact, I'd say less than 1% of knowledge, and much of medical science is wrong or misleading. Medical science has brought both cures and devastating harms and lies. Just like other forms of knowledge, it must be taken with scepticism. Human knowledge has so much more to offer.
- cbzbc 9y ago"The entire Eastern system of medicine evolved based on shared experience and knowledge" and the stuff that worked has became .. medicine.
- crystaln 9y agoAll of it? No. The entire holistic method? Definitely not. Bits and pieces of Chinese medicine have been appropriated by Western medicine in piecemeal ways that often miss the point. There are large universities to teach this stuff. To believe that Western medicine has studied and adopted all that works is colonial arrogance.
- gxs 9y agoPeople that do things professionally where the science isn't fully vetted out usually have some things to teach in this regard. My favorite example is body builders. There is still a lot of quackery, but I wouldn't throw everything they say out the window. These dudes are competitive and the sport is decades old, they have a good idea of what works, and that includes supplements.
- crystaln 9y agoOr like, lawyers. Do we ask them to prove the efficacy of their methods or do we take anecdotal evidence?
- matthewmacleod 9y agoFurther, scientific studies are very often flawed. I trust how I feel at least as much as I trust a study. Hey, you know, if supplements make you feel better and there's no evidence that a particular one does any harm, then go for it! But you have to acknowledge that "feeling better" in the absence of any evidence that a particular supplement has a detectible impact is more likely to be some complex placebo effect than anything else. Which is still valuable, but important to think about.
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- DoreenMichele 9y ago"I have [ailment]. I do X. I feel better." "Totes in your mind dude. Feeling better could not possibly be evidence of improved physical health." This line of thinking makes me crazy and I don't understand why it is considered acceptable in any environment that remotely considers itself to be a space that values logic and science and the like.
- ceejayoz 9y agoWe've ample evidence of the existence of the placebo effect. Supplements are frequently studied. Some have scientific evidence of efficacy. Others don't, and it's reasonable to point out that claims of their efficacy that can't be successfully shown via studies may be the placebo effect at work.
- DoreenMichele 9y agoPointing out that it may be the placebo effect and wholesale mocking dismissal are not the same thing.
- crystaln 9y agoYes. Also it's called then placebo effect for a reason. Because the effect is real. Placebo effects can cure cancer. Feeling better is important if not the ultimate goal. Some medicine may be a combination of placebo and effects we don't understand.
- NikolaeVarius 9y agoI too eat walnuts because its shaped like a brain, and therefore makes me smarter.
- crystaln 9y agoIf a placebo effect makes you smarter, did the medicine work?
- ceejayoz 9y agoNo? Obviously? To crib a bit from The Simpsons: I am currently not being attacked by tigers, but that doesn't mean my anti-tiger rock works, and it would be potentially dangerous to believe it does.
- crystaln 9y agoBad analogy. There is a real effect from taking the drug, even if not related to it's pharmacology. There is no effect of the tiger rock on the tigers.
- jimmies 9y ago>The entire Eastern system of medicine evolved based on shared experience and knowledge, and ample experience exists with many supplements to support their use... Oh -- you don't tell me the entire Western system of medicine evolved isn't based on shared experience and knowledge! The difference is the Western system has a systematic way of filtering noises from anecdotal experiences. It's called science: One of the most important pillars is reproducibility. You need to know what the chances that something will work, how statistically significant the result of the method you propose is. Any of the ideas such as "eating roots and leaves," "expose it to X-rays," "pray to the Gods," "spit on it," "take supplements," "open it up and cut it with a sterile knife," "drinking rhino horn powder," method, at the beginning, can equally seem like great ideas -- and we should test them all. But so far, some of the "take supplements" routes, as pointed out by the article, don't work way too well. The Eastern system, in general, doesn't work too well either. If it did, Eastern people with cancer wouldn't have to go through chemo.