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The Kraftfahrt-Bundesamt says it takes into account a number of Abgrenzungskriterien including size, weight, performance, seating capacity, # of doors; however

The Kraftfahrt-Bundesamt says it takes into account a number of Abgrenzungskriterien including size, weight, performance, seating capacity, # of doors; however it has no standard formula for assigning Models to a Fahrzeugsegment. The only criteria used that truly differentiates the segments is price. If you take a look at the vehicles included in the Oberklasse segment you quickly see a pattern, they're all really expensive. If you asked a 5 year old to play "which one of these is not like they other" they'd quickly zero in on the Tesla models very quickly because they don't look like luxury vehicles. That's not to say that the Tesla models aren't very nice cars, they're just not opulent. The Tesla models cost as much as they do because of the technology under the covers. The other cars in the Oberklasse segment aren't technologically expensive, they're pretty bog standard high performance vehicles slathered in expensive and exotic materials and refinements.

jjeaff 9y ago
Hmm, really? What is it about a Tesla that doesn't look as premium. On the outside I think they look comparably luxurious to a Mercedes a class of BMW 7. The inside amenities is where they fall short in my opinion.
- Tomte 9y ago
  Maybe nobody will believe me, but the first time I saw a Tesla Model S in person was a few months ago, when it stopped in front of me at a traffic light. I couldn't read the word "Tesla" and only saw an unfamiliar car with a logo I hadn't seen before. My thoughts were "what strange Chinese crap trying to look like a big car is this?". Really. I know, sounds stupid. I was able to read "Tesla" shortly thereafter and certainly felt stupid, not recognizing the car or the logo after reading so much about Tesla. My opinion has slightly changed, in the meantime, I don't see them anymore and think of "cheap" and "wannabe", but I suspect that my initial feeling was the true one and I'm now subconsciously factoring in that I know it is a Tesla. Still, they badly need an experienced "conventional" designer if they see themselves as one of the luxury Mercedes or BMW cars. But I suspect they don't see themselves like that and actively try to force a new design language into the market and create a new niche.
  - cptskippy 9y ago
    This thread has got me thinking about what luxury looks like and I think brand prestige plays a lot in our perceptions. When we think Bentley, Audi, BMW or Mercedes we think high end luxury because of their history and lineage. Those brands also use very unique design language. BMW has it's characteristic 4 globe headlamps, Audi with it's minimalist aesthetic, etc. We've associated those designs with luxury. When you first see the Hyundai Genesis line of cars you think it's some sort of high end fine European luxury vehicle because they copied the design language of luxury brands. However when you realize they're Hyundais you immediately think "oh garbage". When Toyota first starting making the Lexus line they look like glossy versions of their Toyota counterparts and it took many years for them to develop a distinctive design aesthetic. Honda had similar issues with the Acura line in the US and I would argue they still do because the Acura line doesn't exist in other markets so those vehicles are branded as Honda. The Honda Odyssey has always looked more like an Acura to me. Tesla to their credit didn't try to cash in the prestige of another brand by copying their design language. Tesla's design language is a blank slate in our mind so when we see it we don't know what to expect. We try to associate it with what we know, in this case you thought Chinese crap.
    - jotm 9y ago
      I dont' think true luxury is meant to "look". There's the iconic Rolls Royce, Aston Martin, Porsche designs that most people recognize, but plenty of luxury cars look quite average. It's only when you're inside that you realize why they're luxury. I loved the VW Phaeton for this - yes, I know, not the highest end luxury, but it looks like a Passat on the outside and feels like an S class on the inside imo.
      - amyjess 9y ago
        The Toyota Century is another example of this kind of luxury car. It's tailor-made for conservative Japanese businessmen who have a lot of money and enjoy riding in comfort but have no desire to show off. Here's a good article on the Century and the kind of luxury it represents: http://autoweek.com/article/tokyo-motor-show/no-modern-luxury-sedan-can-touch-toyota-century http://autoweek.com/article/tokyo-motor-show/no-modern-luxur...
- IntronExon 9y ago
  Oh come on, the panel gaps and production issues on a Tesla would get a Mercedes manager killed! https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-teardown-video-review/ https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-teardown-video-revie... Edit: Sorry that was a Model 3, here’s the S https://insideevs.com/teardown-expert-test-drives-tesla-model-3-no-longer-compares-it-to-90s-kia-video/ https://insideevs.com/teardown-expert-test-drives-tesla-mode...
  - lucideer 9y ago
    That's a Model 3, not a Model S
    - IntronExon 9y ago
      Good point, oops! I’ve edited my comment to make that point, and include the correct tearsown.
      - lucideer 9y ago
        There was only one (publicly released) teardown. Munro seems to have released only two, one of the Model 3 and one of the car he considers to be the "most advanced vehicle on the planet", the i3. Considering the extreme opposite outcomes of his only two public teardowns, I'd be curious to see how measured his views on other cars would be or whether there's any hyperbole here. Does anyone have any other Munro teardowns? Or perhaps any other independent source reconfirming his view?
  - cromwellian 9y ago
    That review is incredibly biased and concerns the Model 3 not the Model S.
    - IntronExon 9y ago
      Yeah, Teslarati.com is ever so biased against Tesla. :| Does biased just mean “I don’t like it!” these days?
- hammock 9y ago
  It's sort of like comparing a house decorated from Design Within Reach modern furniture to a house decorated with 18th century ornate, solid-wood antiques.
- cptskippy 9y ago
  > What is it about a Tesla that doesn't look as premium. It's not that it doesn't look premium, it's that it doesn't look luxury. What about a Tesla makes it look more expensive than an Honda Accord or Mazda 6? When I look at a Tesla it very much reminds me of Mazda. It looks like it's built for performance.
  - vvanders 9y ago
    That's because the main designer[1] is ex-Mazda. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_von_Holzhausen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_von_Holzhausen
- vkou 9y ago
  The inside of one looks and feels like a Prius, with a Kindle for a center console.
  - greglindahl 9y ago
    It's kind of fun how some people see the center console as "the future", and others hate it. Fortunately, Tesla doesn't need a majority of consumers to love it.
    - vkou 9y ago
      I'm not completely opposed to digital center consoles, but I'd expect something that feels less flimsy on an $85,000 car.
tinbad 9y ago
Really?? Not sure what gen 7er you're comparing to but the interior quality of the Model S reminded me more of a Toyota than anything German. Interior-wise, BMW has stepped up their game in recent years but Mercedes/Audi interiors are still considered better overall, especially in the higher end models.
- cptskippy 9y ago
  I believe we're saying the same thing.

jjeaff 9y ago

Hmm, really? What is it about a Tesla that doesn't look as premium. On the outside I think they look comparably luxurious to a Mercedes a class of BMW 7. The inside amenities is where they fall short in my opinion.

Tomte 9y ago
Maybe nobody will believe me, but the first time I saw a Tesla Model S in person was a few months ago, when it stopped in front of me at a traffic light. I couldn't read the word "Tesla" and only saw an unfamiliar car with a logo I hadn't seen before. My thoughts were "what strange Chinese crap trying to look like a big car is this?". Really. I know, sounds stupid. I was able to read "Tesla" shortly thereafter and certainly felt stupid, not recognizing the car or the logo after reading so much about Tesla. My opinion has slightly changed, in the meantime, I don't see them anymore and think of "cheap" and "wannabe", but I suspect that my initial feeling was the true one and I'm now subconsciously factoring in that I know it is a Tesla. Still, they badly need an experienced "conventional" designer if they see themselves as one of the luxury Mercedes or BMW cars. But I suspect they don't see themselves like that and actively try to force a new design language into the market and create a new niche.
- cptskippy 9y ago
  This thread has got me thinking about what luxury looks like and I think brand prestige plays a lot in our perceptions. When we think Bentley, Audi, BMW or Mercedes we think high end luxury because of their history and lineage. Those brands also use very unique design language. BMW has it's characteristic 4 globe headlamps, Audi with it's minimalist aesthetic, etc. We've associated those designs with luxury. When you first see the Hyundai Genesis line of cars you think it's some sort of high end fine European luxury vehicle because they copied the design language of luxury brands. However when you realize they're Hyundais you immediately think "oh garbage". When Toyota first starting making the Lexus line they look like glossy versions of their Toyota counterparts and it took many years for them to develop a distinctive design aesthetic. Honda had similar issues with the Acura line in the US and I would argue they still do because the Acura line doesn't exist in other markets so those vehicles are branded as Honda. The Honda Odyssey has always looked more like an Acura to me. Tesla to their credit didn't try to cash in the prestige of another brand by copying their design language. Tesla's design language is a blank slate in our mind so when we see it we don't know what to expect. We try to associate it with what we know, in this case you thought Chinese crap.
  - jotm 9y ago
    I dont' think true luxury is meant to "look". There's the iconic Rolls Royce, Aston Martin, Porsche designs that most people recognize, but plenty of luxury cars look quite average. It's only when you're inside that you realize why they're luxury. I loved the VW Phaeton for this - yes, I know, not the highest end luxury, but it looks like a Passat on the outside and feels like an S class on the inside imo.
    - amyjess 9y ago
      The Toyota Century is another example of this kind of luxury car. It's tailor-made for conservative Japanese businessmen who have a lot of money and enjoy riding in comfort but have no desire to show off. Here's a good article on the Century and the kind of luxury it represents: http://autoweek.com/article/tokyo-motor-show/no-modern-luxury-sedan-can-touch-toyota-century http://autoweek.com/article/tokyo-motor-show/no-modern-luxur...
IntronExon 9y ago
Oh come on, the panel gaps and production issues on a Tesla would get a Mercedes manager killed! https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-teardown-video-review/ https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-teardown-video-revie... Edit: Sorry that was a Model 3, here’s the S https://insideevs.com/teardown-expert-test-drives-tesla-model-3-no-longer-compares-it-to-90s-kia-video/ https://insideevs.com/teardown-expert-test-drives-tesla-mode...
- lucideer 9y ago
  That's a Model 3, not a Model S
  - IntronExon 9y ago
    Good point, oops! I’ve edited my comment to make that point, and include the correct tearsown.
    - lucideer 9y ago
      There was only one (publicly released) teardown. Munro seems to have released only two, one of the Model 3 and one of the car he considers to be the "most advanced vehicle on the planet", the i3. Considering the extreme opposite outcomes of his only two public teardowns, I'd be curious to see how measured his views on other cars would be or whether there's any hyperbole here. Does anyone have any other Munro teardowns? Or perhaps any other independent source reconfirming his view?
- cromwellian 9y ago
  That review is incredibly biased and concerns the Model 3 not the Model S.
  - IntronExon 9y ago
    Yeah, Teslarati.com is ever so biased against Tesla. :| Does biased just mean “I don’t like it!” these days?
hammock 9y ago
It's sort of like comparing a house decorated from Design Within Reach modern furniture to a house decorated with 18th century ornate, solid-wood antiques.
cptskippy 9y ago
> What is it about a Tesla that doesn't look as premium. It's not that it doesn't look premium, it's that it doesn't look luxury. What about a Tesla makes it look more expensive than an Honda Accord or Mazda 6? When I look at a Tesla it very much reminds me of Mazda. It looks like it's built for performance.
- vvanders 9y ago
  That's because the main designer[1] is ex-Mazda. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_von_Holzhausen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_von_Holzhausen
vkou 9y ago
The inside of one looks and feels like a Prius, with a Kindle for a center console.
- greglindahl 9y ago
  It's kind of fun how some people see the center console as "the future", and others hate it. Fortunately, Tesla doesn't need a majority of consumers to love it.
  - vkou 9y ago
    I'm not completely opposed to digital center consoles, but I'd expect something that feels less flimsy on an $85,000 car.

tinbad 9y ago

Really?? Not sure what gen 7er you're comparing to but the interior quality of the Model S reminded me more of a Toyota than anything German. Interior-wise, BMW has stepped up their game in recent years but Mercedes/Audi interiors are still considered better overall, especially in the higher end models.

cptskippy 9y ago
I believe we're saying the same thing.