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cutting in front of cars and crossing intersections when they shouldn’t What drivers who have never used a bicycle don't even consider is that as a cyclist you

cutting in front of cars and crossing intersections when they shouldn’t What drivers who have never used a bicycle don't even consider is that as a cyclist you are extremely mobile and have a much better overview of the road. A cyclist can cross an intersection on red with little danger, a car attempting the same would be murderous. In countries like the Netherlands most everyone has biked to school from the age of 6 before they are turned loose in a car at 18, there is much better mutual understanding between car drivers and bike riders over there.

michaelt 9y ago
A cyclist can cross an intersection on red with little danger Unfortunately, the 30% of riders who can't do this competently spoil things for the 70% of riders who can. I don't own a car and I cycle thousands of miles a year, so I'm very much on the side of cyclists over motorists - but last year, as I walked across a pedestrian crossing with a green light, I was hit by a bicyclist running a red light - who promptly fled the scene without so much as an apology. This kind of thing creates strong, memorable emotional responses people are keen to share. If I'd been more seriously injured, or if the fall had broken my expensive consumer electronics, or if I wasn't a cyclist, or if an infirm relative had been in the accident instead of me, even more so. This being the case, it isn't realistic to convince other road users to approve of cyclists running red lights; getting them to do so is as unlikely as that last 30% of riders spontaneously becoming competent.
ilovecars2 9y ago
It is NOT OK to go through red lights, whether in a car, on a bike or on foot. The rules are the rules and we should all abide them. It happens all the time in London where bikes go through red lights and weave through pedestrians (sometimes at speed) who are crossing the road. Pedestrians are even worse - and often walk or run across red lights and almost get hit from a bus, car or bike. It’s madness!
- inopinatus 9y ago
  To add a note of international confusion, in some parts of the US I believe it is legal to turn right through a red light.
  - majewsky 9y ago
    Germany has a separate sign for this, the green arrow: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a9/Gr%C3%BCner_Pfeil.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a9/Gr%C3%BC... It means that when the traffic light shows red and you want to turn right, the traffic light works like a "STOP" sign instead.
- bhandziuk 9y ago
  This kind of stuff gives cyclists a bad name. Everyone should follow the same rules. Makes commuting much more predicable.
- majewsky 9y ago
  > It is NOT OK to go through red lights, whether in a car, on a bike or on foot. Actually, it depends. Just last week, I learned that it is perfectly legal to jaywalk in Germany, IF it does not interrupt flowing traffic or endanger anyone. Also, you must take the shortest path (orthogonal to the lanes) when crossing a road. (§25 Abs. 3 StVO) I jaywalk all the time. It's just ridiculous to wait at a red light when the street is completely empty.
  - Tomte 9y ago
    No, it isn‘t legal to ignore a red light. How did you get that idea?
    - kazinator 9y ago
      "Going through" a red light is not the same as "ignoring". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_stop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_stop Treating a red light as a stop sign is different from behaving as if it's not there. In many provinces of Canada, motorists can turn right on a red light after coming to a full stop.
      - Tomte 9y ago
        Still illegal in Germany.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- gerbilly 9y ago
  I bike to work everyday and I don't follow the rules of the road, and neither should other cyclists. In a system designed for cars, it's just false piety and won't keep you any safer. The one rule I do follow is that I am courteous and polite to everyone, drivers and pedestrians alike, and I remain hyper alert to everything that is going on around me. That's the only rule you need.
  - ilovecars2 9y ago
    IMO The point of the rules are to remove as much subjection and interpretation to how road users should behave as possible. For example, what should the rules be when overtaking other riders? Should I overtake on the outside or the inside? We know that having a rule on overtaking makes it much safer. Courteous and politeness are great, but a lot of people don’t drive/ride/walk like that. What happens then?
    - gerbilly 9y ago
      If people aren't inclined to be polite or courteous, what makes you so sure they will follow 'the rules' anyway?
  - u801e 9y ago
    But following the rules makes you predictable in terms of what actions you're going to take and makes it easier for other road users to interact with you in a predictable manner.
    - gerbilly 9y ago
      I don't ride erratically because it freaks people and it's impolite. It depends how many people are around, and on the entire situation. I've had sketchy situations when stopping at stop signs. The drivers in my area don't expect cyclists to stop at stop signs, since most don't. So in that case following the rules made me more unpredictable, and confused everyone involved.
      - 9y ago
- thescriptkiddie 9y ago
  I many places is is allowed and even encouraged for cyclists to go through red lights and stop signs. It's called the Idaho stop [0]. It's believed to be safer than waiting at the red light provided that the intersection is clear. Consider that rear-end collisions are the most common cause of cyclist fatalities [1]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_stop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_stop [1] https://www.treehugger.com/bikes/how-get-killed-bike-your-chances-are-best-urban-arterial-road-getting-hit-behind.html https://www.treehugger.com/bikes/how-get-killed-bike-your-ch...
  - ilovecars2 9y ago
    This worries me. What if the intersection is clear but the joining roads are blind (as is often the case in old European cities). Could I cross the red light, get hit and then claim “well I was just following the Idaho stop... I’m not at fault here. The intersection was clear when I set off”? I’m surprised about it being safer, and would be interested to see some stats on it. It could be more common in the US where cities are grids because I don’t think I’ve ever seen a near miss where a cyclist almost got rear ended in London. However, I do see a lot of cyclists getting cut off by buses and cars on corners and at junctions.

michaelt 9y ago

A cyclist can cross an intersection on red with little danger Unfortunately, the 30% of riders who can't do this competently spoil things for the 70% of riders who can. I don't own a car and I cycle thousands of miles a year, so I'm very much on the side of cyclists over motorists - but last year, as I walked across a pedestrian crossing with a green light, I was hit by a bicyclist running a red light - who promptly fled the scene without so much as an apology. This kind of thing creates strong, memorable emotional responses people are keen to share. If I'd been more seriously injured, or if the fall had broken my expensive consumer electronics, or if I wasn't a cyclist, or if an infirm relative had been in the accident instead of me, even more so. This being the case, it isn't realistic to convince other road users to approve of cyclists running red lights; getting them to do so is as unlikely as that last 30% of riders spontaneously becoming competent.

ilovecars2 9y ago

It is NOT OK to go through red lights, whether in a car, on a bike or on foot. The rules are the rules and we should all abide them. It happens all the time in London where bikes go through red lights and weave through pedestrians (sometimes at speed) who are crossing the road. Pedestrians are even worse - and often walk or run across red lights and almost get hit from a bus, car or bike. It’s madness!

inopinatus 9y ago
To add a note of international confusion, in some parts of the US I believe it is legal to turn right through a red light.
- majewsky 9y ago
  Germany has a separate sign for this, the green arrow: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a9/Gr%C3%BCner_Pfeil.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a9/Gr%C3%BC... It means that when the traffic light shows red and you want to turn right, the traffic light works like a "STOP" sign instead.
bhandziuk 9y ago
This kind of stuff gives cyclists a bad name. Everyone should follow the same rules. Makes commuting much more predicable.
majewsky 9y ago
> It is NOT OK to go through red lights, whether in a car, on a bike or on foot. Actually, it depends. Just last week, I learned that it is perfectly legal to jaywalk in Germany, IF it does not interrupt flowing traffic or endanger anyone. Also, you must take the shortest path (orthogonal to the lanes) when crossing a road. (§25 Abs. 3 StVO) I jaywalk all the time. It's just ridiculous to wait at a red light when the street is completely empty.
- Tomte 9y ago
  No, it isn‘t legal to ignore a red light. How did you get that idea?
  - kazinator 9y ago
    "Going through" a red light is not the same as "ignoring". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_stop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_stop Treating a red light as a stop sign is different from behaving as if it's not there. In many provinces of Canada, motorists can turn right on a red light after coming to a full stop.
    - Tomte 9y ago
      Still illegal in Germany.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
gerbilly 9y ago
I bike to work everyday and I don't follow the rules of the road, and neither should other cyclists. In a system designed for cars, it's just false piety and won't keep you any safer. The one rule I do follow is that I am courteous and polite to everyone, drivers and pedestrians alike, and I remain hyper alert to everything that is going on around me. That's the only rule you need.
- ilovecars2 9y ago
  IMO The point of the rules are to remove as much subjection and interpretation to how road users should behave as possible. For example, what should the rules be when overtaking other riders? Should I overtake on the outside or the inside? We know that having a rule on overtaking makes it much safer. Courteous and politeness are great, but a lot of people don’t drive/ride/walk like that. What happens then?
  - gerbilly 9y ago
    If people aren't inclined to be polite or courteous, what makes you so sure they will follow 'the rules' anyway?
- u801e 9y ago
  But following the rules makes you predictable in terms of what actions you're going to take and makes it easier for other road users to interact with you in a predictable manner.
  - gerbilly 9y ago
    I don't ride erratically because it freaks people and it's impolite. It depends how many people are around, and on the entire situation. I've had sketchy situations when stopping at stop signs. The drivers in my area don't expect cyclists to stop at stop signs, since most don't. So in that case following the rules made me more unpredictable, and confused everyone involved.
    - 9y ago
thescriptkiddie 9y ago
I many places is is allowed and even encouraged for cyclists to go through red lights and stop signs. It's called the Idaho stop [0]. It's believed to be safer than waiting at the red light provided that the intersection is clear. Consider that rear-end collisions are the most common cause of cyclist fatalities [1]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_stop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_stop [1] https://www.treehugger.com/bikes/how-get-killed-bike-your-chances-are-best-urban-arterial-road-getting-hit-behind.html https://www.treehugger.com/bikes/how-get-killed-bike-your-ch...
- ilovecars2 9y ago
  This worries me. What if the intersection is clear but the joining roads are blind (as is often the case in old European cities). Could I cross the red light, get hit and then claim “well I was just following the Idaho stop... I’m not at fault here. The intersection was clear when I set off”? I’m surprised about it being safer, and would be interested to see some stats on it. It could be more common in the US where cities are grids because I don’t think I’ve ever seen a near miss where a cyclist almost got rear ended in London. However, I do see a lot of cyclists getting cut off by buses and cars on corners and at junctions.