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How hostile are the drivers in Stockholm? Bay Area drivers aren’t super friendly to cyclists (to be fair, plenty of cyclists also behave like assholes, cutting

How hostile are the drivers in Stockholm? Bay Area drivers aren’t super friendly to cyclists (to be fair, plenty of cyclists also behave like assholes, cutting in front of cars and crossing intersections when they shouldn’t.) My biggest concern during a year of using my bike to commute was making sure I didn’t get ran over by a car taking a turn, because signaling is not always their forte.

HarryHirsch 9y ago
cutting in front of cars and crossing intersections when they shouldn’t What drivers who have never used a bicycle don't even consider is that as a cyclist you are extremely mobile and have a much better overview of the road. A cyclist can cross an intersection on red with little danger, a car attempting the same would be murderous. In countries like the Netherlands most everyone has biked to school from the age of 6 before they are turned loose in a car at 18, there is much better mutual understanding between car drivers and bike riders over there.
- michaelt 9y ago
  A cyclist can cross an intersection on red with little danger Unfortunately, the 30% of riders who can't do this competently spoil things for the 70% of riders who can. I don't own a car and I cycle thousands of miles a year, so I'm very much on the side of cyclists over motorists - but last year, as I walked across a pedestrian crossing with a green light, I was hit by a bicyclist running a red light - who promptly fled the scene without so much as an apology. This kind of thing creates strong, memorable emotional responses people are keen to share. If I'd been more seriously injured, or if the fall had broken my expensive consumer electronics, or if I wasn't a cyclist, or if an infirm relative had been in the accident instead of me, even more so. This being the case, it isn't realistic to convince other road users to approve of cyclists running red lights; getting them to do so is as unlikely as that last 30% of riders spontaneously becoming competent.
- ilovecars2 9y ago
  It is NOT OK to go through red lights, whether in a car, on a bike or on foot. The rules are the rules and we should all abide them. It happens all the time in London where bikes go through red lights and weave through pedestrians (sometimes at speed) who are crossing the road. Pedestrians are even worse - and often walk or run across red lights and almost get hit from a bus, car or bike. It’s madness!
  - inopinatus 9y ago
    To add a note of international confusion, in some parts of the US I believe it is legal to turn right through a red light.
    - majewsky 9y ago
      Germany has a separate sign for this, the green arrow: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a9/Gr%C3%BCner_Pfeil.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a9/Gr%C3%BC... It means that when the traffic light shows red and you want to turn right, the traffic light works like a "STOP" sign instead.
  - bhandziuk 9y ago
    This kind of stuff gives cyclists a bad name. Everyone should follow the same rules. Makes commuting much more predicable.
  - majewsky 9y ago
    > It is NOT OK to go through red lights, whether in a car, on a bike or on foot. Actually, it depends. Just last week, I learned that it is perfectly legal to jaywalk in Germany, IF it does not interrupt flowing traffic or endanger anyone. Also, you must take the shortest path (orthogonal to the lanes) when crossing a road. (§25 Abs. 3 StVO) I jaywalk all the time. It's just ridiculous to wait at a red light when the street is completely empty.
    - Tomte 9y ago
      No, it isn‘t legal to ignore a red light. How did you get that idea?
unicornporn 9y ago
I don't find them to be very hostile. A lot of drivers are extremely stressed (particularly in the morning) and unfocused though. I always try to expect them not to see me at all and I pick safer roads over marginally shorter roads. Some cyclists get very worked up by ill behavior from motorists, getting into dangerous situations to prove their point. Motorists are protected by a >1000 kg shield of metal, so I try just get on with my day.
rconti 9y ago
I find Bay Area drivers (Palo Alto) area to be polite, almost to a fault. I've had a few aggro assholes, but normally the problem is they're unpredictably nice. For example, if a car passes me 50 feet before a stop sign and then either has their right turn signal on or otherwise indicates a turn (turns the wheels to the right as they stop), I often just pull in the lane behind them so there is no confusion about whether I'm going to get run over or not... but it seems to more often CAUSE confusion, because they're waiting for me to go by them on the right, which I appreciate the courtesy, they have the right of way. I often have the same issue at 4-way stops; if they arrive before me and I slow to a stop and put my foot down, THEN they start waving me on and want me to go before them. Of course if I were to blow the stop sign, other people could potentially be annoyed by that. But only about 20% of drivers go before me when I arrive after them and stop and put my foot down. Also, sometimes I try to pull into the "gaps" between parked cars to allow a car behind me to pass, if there is lots of space and I will not need to pull back into the lane for awhile.... but too often indecisiveness and timidity on the part of the driver mean now I'm having to negotiate my way back into the lane with a car still behind me.

HarryHirsch 9y ago

cutting in front of cars and crossing intersections when they shouldn’t What drivers who have never used a bicycle don't even consider is that as a cyclist you are extremely mobile and have a much better overview of the road. A cyclist can cross an intersection on red with little danger, a car attempting the same would be murderous. In countries like the Netherlands most everyone has biked to school from the age of 6 before they are turned loose in a car at 18, there is much better mutual understanding between car drivers and bike riders over there.

michaelt 9y ago
A cyclist can cross an intersection on red with little danger Unfortunately, the 30% of riders who can't do this competently spoil things for the 70% of riders who can. I don't own a car and I cycle thousands of miles a year, so I'm very much on the side of cyclists over motorists - but last year, as I walked across a pedestrian crossing with a green light, I was hit by a bicyclist running a red light - who promptly fled the scene without so much as an apology. This kind of thing creates strong, memorable emotional responses people are keen to share. If I'd been more seriously injured, or if the fall had broken my expensive consumer electronics, or if I wasn't a cyclist, or if an infirm relative had been in the accident instead of me, even more so. This being the case, it isn't realistic to convince other road users to approve of cyclists running red lights; getting them to do so is as unlikely as that last 30% of riders spontaneously becoming competent.
ilovecars2 9y ago
It is NOT OK to go through red lights, whether in a car, on a bike or on foot. The rules are the rules and we should all abide them. It happens all the time in London where bikes go through red lights and weave through pedestrians (sometimes at speed) who are crossing the road. Pedestrians are even worse - and often walk or run across red lights and almost get hit from a bus, car or bike. It’s madness!
- inopinatus 9y ago
  To add a note of international confusion, in some parts of the US I believe it is legal to turn right through a red light.
  - majewsky 9y ago
    Germany has a separate sign for this, the green arrow: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a9/Gr%C3%BCner_Pfeil.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a9/Gr%C3%BC... It means that when the traffic light shows red and you want to turn right, the traffic light works like a "STOP" sign instead.
- bhandziuk 9y ago
  This kind of stuff gives cyclists a bad name. Everyone should follow the same rules. Makes commuting much more predicable.
- majewsky 9y ago
  > It is NOT OK to go through red lights, whether in a car, on a bike or on foot. Actually, it depends. Just last week, I learned that it is perfectly legal to jaywalk in Germany, IF it does not interrupt flowing traffic or endanger anyone. Also, you must take the shortest path (orthogonal to the lanes) when crossing a road. (§25 Abs. 3 StVO) I jaywalk all the time. It's just ridiculous to wait at a red light when the street is completely empty.
  - Tomte 9y ago
    No, it isn‘t legal to ignore a red light. How did you get that idea?

unicornporn 9y ago

I don't find them to be very hostile. A lot of drivers are extremely stressed (particularly in the morning) and unfocused though. I always try to expect them not to see me at all and I pick safer roads over marginally shorter roads. Some cyclists get very worked up by ill behavior from motorists, getting into dangerous situations to prove their point. Motorists are protected by a >1000 kg shield of metal, so I try just get on with my day.

rconti 9y ago

I find Bay Area drivers (Palo Alto) area to be polite, almost to a fault. I've had a few aggro assholes, but normally the problem is they're unpredictably nice. For example, if a car passes me 50 feet before a stop sign and then either has their right turn signal on or otherwise indicates a turn (turns the wheels to the right as they stop), I often just pull in the lane behind them so there is no confusion about whether I'm going to get run over or not... but it seems to more often CAUSE confusion, because they're waiting for me to go by them on the right, which I appreciate the courtesy, they have the right of way. I often have the same issue at 4-way stops; if they arrive before me and I slow to a stop and put my foot down, THEN they start waving me on and want me to go before them. Of course if I were to blow the stop sign, other people could potentially be annoyed by that. But only about 20% of drivers go before me when I arrive after them and stop and put my foot down. Also, sometimes I try to pull into the "gaps" between parked cars to allow a car behind me to pass, if there is lots of space and I will not need to pull back into the lane for awhile.... but too often indecisiveness and timidity on the part of the driver mean now I'm having to negotiate my way back into the lane with a car still behind me.