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I haven't found a better webmail or calendar than Google's, especially self-hosted. Could you reveal what service you're using?

by blfr 9y ago

ocdtrekkie 9y ago
I'm using FastMail, which isn't selfhosted. I have some high hopes for Mailpile though. FastMail's working on an open source standard called JMAP, which has seen some interest from a couple of open source mail projects, and would move labels from being a Gmail-proprietary thing to something openly supported and standardized. Sandstorm.io, where I host my documents, just stated a goal to bring their email support up to par: https://sandstorm.io/news/2018-02-19-http-rewrite-and-more https://sandstorm.io/news/2018-02-19-http-rewrite-and-more Email-based startups and open source projects don't seem to move very fast though, likely because due to the Gmail monopoly, they don't get a lot of support.
- hknd 9y ago
  So neither of those supports multi-inboxes, labels based on complex filters or the ability to 'snooze' emails. Also, they don't automatically extract information from a mail into my calendar (e.g. event/flight/...). Can't see in which sense those are "better" than free gmail.
  - ocdtrekkie 9y ago
    You can definitely automatically filter email into different folders as it comes in, and they support complex rules. You are specifically asking for weird nonstandard behaviors which cause more problems than they fix. (For example, when I used Gmail, the "multiple inboxes" feature didn't work well with third party mail apps, because it isn't really multiple inboxes, it's just Gmail sorting the inbox on the fly. I ended up disabling them and adding custom rules into Gmail to sort them into proper folders.) As the case is FastMail does actually have that feature, I just prefer to use actual rules and folders. ;) Snooze is, from my understanding, an Inbox feature, not a Gmail feature, and I still fail to see any value. (But maybe as a non-Inbox user I just don't know?) You have read, unread, and pinned/starred functionality, how and why one would hide one's emails from oneself until a later point, I have no idea. Extracting data from emails automatically is an antifeature, since it's privacy-invasive. I specifically pay FastMail for it not to do things like that to my mail! But on the opposite end: * FastMail's interface is faster and cleaner than Gmail's and contains no advertising. * FastMail's email/calendar service is fully standards compliant, unlike the number of hacks required to interoperate with Gmail's proprietary nonsense. Just yesterday I was reading about this: http://blog.fruux.com/2014/10/16/google-carddav/ http://blog.fruux.com/2014/10/16/google-carddav/ * FastMail gives me incredibly fine-grained control over how my mail is handled, including it's spam filtering. * When I have an issue with FastMail, I can ask for help, and a real human (and one random time, literally the CEO) will respond, and assist me with my problem. ---- FWIW, Outlook.com has a pretty nice email client too, and their account management is a lot more mature than Google's (I can change my Microsoft account's email address, something Google remains incapable of to this day, somehow). Gmail has been around for over a decade, it's the least common denominator now, most email services are at least as good as Gmail.
- blfr 9y ago
  Mailpile is great. I use it as sort of a webmail for my private email server. But it's not even close to Gmail, and has no calendar, or note taking app (yes, I actually do use Keep). I don't think FastMail can really compete with G Suite on anything except "not being the leviathan." Which is not nothing! But as a tool, it's just not as good. And Outlook which you mention in the comment below doesn't even have this. Let's not underestimate Google here. They offer a full productivity suite, an excellent, tight integration with Android, plus Chrome sync for multiple profiles. They're tough competition.
  - ocdtrekkie 9y ago
    I went looking for a replacement to escape Google, but I'd definitely disagree FastMail is "just not as good". On the contrary, it makes Gmail feel old and poorly maintained in comparison. It's better written software, before you get into the fact that you can get real human support for it.
- dmitrygr 9y ago
  > Email-based startups and open source > projects don't seem to move very fast > though, likely because due to the > Gmail monopoly, they don't get a > lot of support. A great big {{citation needed}} as to your claim of a cause-and-effect relationship between these two statements.

I haven't found a better webmail or calendar than Google's, especially self-hosted. Could you reveal what service you're using?

by blfr 9y ago

I haven't found a better webmail or calendar than Google's, especially self-hosted. Could you reveal what service you're using?

ocdtrekkie 9y ago

I'm using FastMail, which isn't selfhosted. I have some high hopes for Mailpile though. FastMail's working on an open source standard called JMAP, which has seen some interest from a couple of open source mail projects, and would move labels from being a Gmail-proprietary thing to something openly supported and standardized. Sandstorm.io, where I host my documents, just stated a goal to bring their email support up to par: https://sandstorm.io/news/2018-02-19-http-rewrite-and-more https://sandstorm.io/news/2018-02-19-http-rewrite-and-more Email-based startups and open source projects don't seem to move very fast though, likely because due to the Gmail monopoly, they don't get a lot of support.

hknd 9y ago
So neither of those supports multi-inboxes, labels based on complex filters or the ability to 'snooze' emails. Also, they don't automatically extract information from a mail into my calendar (e.g. event/flight/...). Can't see in which sense those are "better" than free gmail.
- ocdtrekkie 9y ago
  You can definitely automatically filter email into different folders as it comes in, and they support complex rules. You are specifically asking for weird nonstandard behaviors which cause more problems than they fix. (For example, when I used Gmail, the "multiple inboxes" feature didn't work well with third party mail apps, because it isn't really multiple inboxes, it's just Gmail sorting the inbox on the fly. I ended up disabling them and adding custom rules into Gmail to sort them into proper folders.) As the case is FastMail does actually have that feature, I just prefer to use actual rules and folders. ;) Snooze is, from my understanding, an Inbox feature, not a Gmail feature, and I still fail to see any value. (But maybe as a non-Inbox user I just don't know?) You have read, unread, and pinned/starred functionality, how and why one would hide one's emails from oneself until a later point, I have no idea. Extracting data from emails automatically is an antifeature, since it's privacy-invasive. I specifically pay FastMail for it not to do things like that to my mail! But on the opposite end: * FastMail's interface is faster and cleaner than Gmail's and contains no advertising. * FastMail's email/calendar service is fully standards compliant, unlike the number of hacks required to interoperate with Gmail's proprietary nonsense. Just yesterday I was reading about this: http://blog.fruux.com/2014/10/16/google-carddav/ http://blog.fruux.com/2014/10/16/google-carddav/ * FastMail gives me incredibly fine-grained control over how my mail is handled, including it's spam filtering. * When I have an issue with FastMail, I can ask for help, and a real human (and one random time, literally the CEO) will respond, and assist me with my problem. ---- FWIW, Outlook.com has a pretty nice email client too, and their account management is a lot more mature than Google's (I can change my Microsoft account's email address, something Google remains incapable of to this day, somehow). Gmail has been around for over a decade, it's the least common denominator now, most email services are at least as good as Gmail.
blfr 9y ago
Mailpile is great. I use it as sort of a webmail for my private email server. But it's not even close to Gmail, and has no calendar, or note taking app (yes, I actually do use Keep). I don't think FastMail can really compete with G Suite on anything except "not being the leviathan." Which is not nothing! But as a tool, it's just not as good. And Outlook which you mention in the comment below doesn't even have this. Let's not underestimate Google here. They offer a full productivity suite, an excellent, tight integration with Android, plus Chrome sync for multiple profiles. They're tough competition.
- ocdtrekkie 9y ago
  I went looking for a replacement to escape Google, but I'd definitely disagree FastMail is "just not as good". On the contrary, it makes Gmail feel old and poorly maintained in comparison. It's better written software, before you get into the fact that you can get real human support for it.
dmitrygr 9y ago
> Email-based startups and open source > projects don't seem to move very fast > though, likely because due to the > Gmail monopoly, they don't get a > lot of support. A great big {{citation needed}} as to your claim of a cause-and-effect relationship between these two statements.