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>The people who pirated it simply were never going to pay for it whether they play it or not. I hear this argument a lot but can't see how it possibly be corre

>The people who pirated it simply were never going to pay for it whether they play it or not. I hear this argument a lot but can't see how it possibly be correct. Sure, not everyone who pirates would buy instead but at least some people would (it probably is a small percentage, but it is not zero). One can imagine that the effect of those few is amplified for titles with high costs per unit.

simias 9y ago
If you consider this you also have to consider people who pirate a game and then decide to buy it later when they get the money or they realize that it's worth the price. It happened to me on several occasions. There's also the "photoshop effect", where piracy helps ensure that the application remains the de-facto standard. Admittedly this is less applicable for games but it might help with 3rd party controller support, modding community etc...
- danielbarla 9y ago
  In the context of niche games with pricey DLCs, I now have a significant collection of TS2018 DLCs. If I was not able to "try out" that game a few years ago in a less than legal fashion, I likely never would have gotten into it in the first place. I have a similar trend with books; on several occasions I've ended up owning (legally) the entire work of some author, simply because a friend gave me their copy of a book. I also believe that in the age of Steam specials, refunds, etc, people who pirate your game are not "lost sales". They are usually doing it because their appetite for games outstrips their budget, and they were highly unlikely to pay for it in the first place. But there is a significant chance may convert to a paying customer, or at least market the game by word of mouth.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- dkersten 9y ago
  I’ll add my anecdote here. I haven’t pirated a game in ten years, but when I was a student, I pirated most of my games. Almost all of the ones that I played for more than a few days, I now own legally. Some of these games, I’ve become a big fan of the series and buy all new games (I pirated the original Witcher game for example, I now own it, the collectors edition of the second, the third game and am eagerly awaiting basically any game the developer releases. While it’s likely I would have eventually played The Witcher 3 anyway given how successful it was, I’d likely have missed the Witcher 2 and probably wouldn’t be such a blind fanboy of anything CDPR release) I also regularly NOT buy games (but nowadays also don’t pirate them, in the past I might have) if they hnave intrusive DRM
kbart 9y ago
"Sure, not everyone who pirates would buy instead but at least some people would (it probably is a small percentage, but it is not zero)." If we've already start speculating, such part might be offset by people like me, who tend to buy games only they like. I often pirated new game just to see if it's worth buying. And I've recently bought most of games on GOG I had played as pirate versions when I was a poor teenager, even though I barely play computer games anymore.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 9y ago
You have to take into account additional arguments, like the time you'll be spending implementing effective DRM will cost you more than any sales you're actually running the risk of losing, may degrade the experience of your legitimate customer base, etc.
dkersten 9y ago
https://cdn.netzpolitik.org/wp-upload/2017/09/displacement_study.pdf https://cdn.netzpolitik.org/wp-upload/2017/09/displacement_s... I didn’t read it, but apparently that EU funded study found that piracy doesn’t harm sales. At least, that’s what the news reporting said about it.
Brockenstein 9y ago
>I hear this argument a lot but can't see how it possibly be correct. Sure, not everyone who pirates would buy instead but at least some people would (it probably is a small percentage, but it is not zero). Consider that for lack of a demo, or other scenario, people who pirate the game but end up purchasing it later. Sure, not all pirates would buy the game they've pirated, but at least some people would (it probably is a small percentage, but it is not zero). >One can imagine that the effect of those few is amplified for titles with high costs per unit. I would argue mainstream titles would make up that difference through volume of pirated copies though. Piracy isn't a non-issue, but it's just not a dire threat either. Decades of video game piracy has demonstrated that.
- wang_li 9y ago
  >I would argue mainstream titles would make up that difference through volume of pirated copies though. Averages don't mean that the small development house with the high cost per unit product doesn't go out of business when a small percentage of those who would have bought their product pirate it instead.
throwawaysecops 9y ago
The key is imagine. We have no means by which to estimate the proposed loss in the future when it happens. Talking about such a "loss" is irrational, at best. It matters not if someone pirates software. If someone is pirating your software, and you care deeply about it, your model for making money is probably off.

simias 9y ago

If you consider this you also have to consider people who pirate a game and then decide to buy it later when they get the money or they realize that it's worth the price. It happened to me on several occasions. There's also the "photoshop effect", where piracy helps ensure that the application remains the de-facto standard. Admittedly this is less applicable for games but it might help with 3rd party controller support, modding community etc...

danielbarla 9y ago
In the context of niche games with pricey DLCs, I now have a significant collection of TS2018 DLCs. If I was not able to "try out" that game a few years ago in a less than legal fashion, I likely never would have gotten into it in the first place. I have a similar trend with books; on several occasions I've ended up owning (legally) the entire work of some author, simply because a friend gave me their copy of a book. I also believe that in the age of Steam specials, refunds, etc, people who pirate your game are not "lost sales". They are usually doing it because their appetite for games outstrips their budget, and they were highly unlikely to pay for it in the first place. But there is a significant chance may convert to a paying customer, or at least market the game by word of mouth.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
dkersten 9y ago
I’ll add my anecdote here. I haven’t pirated a game in ten years, but when I was a student, I pirated most of my games. Almost all of the ones that I played for more than a few days, I now own legally. Some of these games, I’ve become a big fan of the series and buy all new games (I pirated the original Witcher game for example, I now own it, the collectors edition of the second, the third game and am eagerly awaiting basically any game the developer releases. While it’s likely I would have eventually played The Witcher 3 anyway given how successful it was, I’d likely have missed the Witcher 2 and probably wouldn’t be such a blind fanboy of anything CDPR release) I also regularly NOT buy games (but nowadays also don’t pirate them, in the past I might have) if they hnave intrusive DRM

kbart 9y ago

"Sure, not everyone who pirates would buy instead but at least some people would (it probably is a small percentage, but it is not zero)." If we've already start speculating, such part might be offset by people like me, who tend to buy games only they like. I often pirated new game just to see if it's worth buying. And I've recently bought most of games on GOG I had played as pirate versions when I was a poor teenager, even though I barely play computer games anymore.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 9y ago

You have to take into account additional arguments, like the time you'll be spending implementing effective DRM will cost you more than any sales you're actually running the risk of losing, may degrade the experience of your legitimate customer base, etc.

dkersten 9y ago

https://cdn.netzpolitik.org/wp-upload/2017/09/displacement_study.pdf https://cdn.netzpolitik.org/wp-upload/2017/09/displacement_s... I didn’t read it, but apparently that EU funded study found that piracy doesn’t harm sales. At least, that’s what the news reporting said about it.

Brockenstein 9y ago

>I hear this argument a lot but can't see how it possibly be correct. Sure, not everyone who pirates would buy instead but at least some people would (it probably is a small percentage, but it is not zero). Consider that for lack of a demo, or other scenario, people who pirate the game but end up purchasing it later. Sure, not all pirates would buy the game they've pirated, but at least some people would (it probably is a small percentage, but it is not zero). >One can imagine that the effect of those few is amplified for titles with high costs per unit. I would argue mainstream titles would make up that difference through volume of pirated copies though. Piracy isn't a non-issue, but it's just not a dire threat either. Decades of video game piracy has demonstrated that.

wang_li 9y ago
>I would argue mainstream titles would make up that difference through volume of pirated copies though. Averages don't mean that the small development house with the high cost per unit product doesn't go out of business when a small percentage of those who would have bought their product pirate it instead.

throwawaysecops 9y ago

The key is imagine. We have no means by which to estimate the proposed loss in the future when it happens. Talking about such a "loss" is irrational, at best. It matters not if someone pirates software. If someone is pirating your software, and you care deeply about it, your model for making money is probably off.