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>all the flours and starches are for all intents and purposes sugar Only if you look at the most refined and treated flours. Overly refined and bleached flour

>all the flours and starches are for all intents and purposes sugar Only if you look at the most refined and treated flours. Overly refined and bleached flour is obviously not great nutritionally, as with all processed foods. Even just unbleached wheat flour is significantly better, and whole grain types are much better, plenty of fiber and vitamins/minerals. I hope you're not claiming a good wholegrain mixed-grain sourdough bread is the same as eating white sugar.

keymone 9y ago
> I hope you're not claiming a good wholegrain mixed-grain sourdough bread is the same as eating white sugar. no, it's the same as eating 33% of that weight in white sugar, but of course ymmv https://www.eatthismuch.com/food/view/sourdough-whole-grain-bread,569164/ https://www.eatthismuch.com/food/view/sourdough-whole-grain-...
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- KozmoNau7 9y ago
  First of all, you're looking at a mass-produced ("artisinal" is marketing wank) low-fiber generic bread, with a rather low percentage of whole-grain flour. Not to mention that what the US allows under the umbrella of "whole grain" is problematic. Secondly, you're completely ignoring the fiber, vitamins and minerals you get from the bread, compared to eating straight refined pure white sugar. No food is nutrionally perfect, but good whole-grain bread can certainly be an essential part of a balanced and healthy diet. This war against all carbs is insane. Sure, you should absolutely avoid refined carbs and straight sugar. But that does not make keto/paleo a healthy diet.
  - keymone 9y ago
    > you're completely ignoring the fiber how come? 33% is net carbs, which is carbs minus fiber. i'm not advocating for paleo or keto here. just saying that people overeat simple sugars and often don't know the source. i also don't agree keto/paleo is unhealthy. gotta provide sources for claims like that.
    - KozmoNau7 9y ago
      Bread provides additional quality nutrition, compared to straight sugar. That's my point. Not every foodstuff needs to be nutritionally complete and macro nutrient balanced. The keto diet is widely acknowledged to be a bad choice. Here's just one summary: https://www.thedailymeal.com/healthy-eating/keto-ranked-worst-diet-health-experts/010418 https://www.thedailymeal.com/healthy-eating/keto-ranked-wors... Keto diets are useful as medical tools, but they absolutely should not be used generally by otherwise healthy people.
      - orbifold 9y ago
        This is a bullshit link if I ever saw one... I mean of course the Department of Agriculture will recommend a high carb diet, given that they are mostly concerned for an agricultural sector that produces corn and other grains en masse...
        KozmoNau7 9y ago
        The Department of Agriculture reference is only in there for context, they didn't conduct the survey. Your conspiracy theories are showing.
      - keymone 9y ago
        > keto diet is widely acknowledged to be a bad choice "Keto Is Ranked the Worst Diet by Health Experts" are those the same "experts" that have been recommending people to reduce their fat intake for the last 4 decades, effectively increasing sugar consumption and being responbsible for literally millions of dead people around the world? sorry if i won't take you seriously anymore.
        KozmoNau7 9y ago
        These are the experts on the panel: https://health.usnews.com/best-diet/experts https://health.usnews.com/best-diet/experts The overall consensus used to be that fat was bad, but science has advanced and our view on the subject is a lot more nuanced than "fat bad". Clinical dieticians and other experts have updated their recommendations accordingly. That's how science works, we continually improve our collective knowledge. Going completely off the rails and jumping on fad diets instead is not a wise choice. The current recommendation of a diet heavy in plants, low in saturated fat, moderate in carbs (complex carbs, ditch the simple ones) is perfectly sound, a good average diet for the average person.

keymone 9y ago

> I hope you're not claiming a good wholegrain mixed-grain sourdough bread is the same as eating white sugar. no, it's the same as eating 33% of that weight in white sugar, but of course ymmv https://www.eatthismuch.com/food/view/sourdough-whole-grain-bread,569164/ https://www.eatthismuch.com/food/view/sourdough-whole-grain-...

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
KozmoNau7 9y ago
First of all, you're looking at a mass-produced ("artisinal" is marketing wank) low-fiber generic bread, with a rather low percentage of whole-grain flour. Not to mention that what the US allows under the umbrella of "whole grain" is problematic. Secondly, you're completely ignoring the fiber, vitamins and minerals you get from the bread, compared to eating straight refined pure white sugar. No food is nutrionally perfect, but good whole-grain bread can certainly be an essential part of a balanced and healthy diet. This war against all carbs is insane. Sure, you should absolutely avoid refined carbs and straight sugar. But that does not make keto/paleo a healthy diet.
- keymone 9y ago
  > you're completely ignoring the fiber how come? 33% is net carbs, which is carbs minus fiber. i'm not advocating for paleo or keto here. just saying that people overeat simple sugars and often don't know the source. i also don't agree keto/paleo is unhealthy. gotta provide sources for claims like that.
  - KozmoNau7 9y ago
    Bread provides additional quality nutrition, compared to straight sugar. That's my point. Not every foodstuff needs to be nutritionally complete and macro nutrient balanced. The keto diet is widely acknowledged to be a bad choice. Here's just one summary: https://www.thedailymeal.com/healthy-eating/keto-ranked-worst-diet-health-experts/010418 https://www.thedailymeal.com/healthy-eating/keto-ranked-wors... Keto diets are useful as medical tools, but they absolutely should not be used generally by otherwise healthy people.
    - orbifold 9y ago
      This is a bullshit link if I ever saw one... I mean of course the Department of Agriculture will recommend a high carb diet, given that they are mostly concerned for an agricultural sector that produces corn and other grains en masse...
      - KozmoNau7 9y ago
        The Department of Agriculture reference is only in there for context, they didn't conduct the survey. Your conspiracy theories are showing.
    - keymone 9y ago
      > keto diet is widely acknowledged to be a bad choice "Keto Is Ranked the Worst Diet by Health Experts" are those the same "experts" that have been recommending people to reduce their fat intake for the last 4 decades, effectively increasing sugar consumption and being responbsible for literally millions of dead people around the world? sorry if i won't take you seriously anymore.
      - KozmoNau7 9y ago
        These are the experts on the panel: https://health.usnews.com/best-diet/experts https://health.usnews.com/best-diet/experts The overall consensus used to be that fat was bad, but science has advanced and our view on the subject is a lot more nuanced than "fat bad". Clinical dieticians and other experts have updated their recommendations accordingly. That's how science works, we continually improve our collective knowledge. Going completely off the rails and jumping on fad diets instead is not a wise choice. The current recommendation of a diet heavy in plants, low in saturated fat, moderate in carbs (complex carbs, ditch the simple ones) is perfectly sound, a good average diet for the average person.