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>When the media and academic culture is so toxic to any white men who speak up for their own interests, only someone who has no filter, like Trump, dares to spe

>When the media and academic culture is so toxic to any white men who speak up for their own interests, only someone who has no filter, like Trump, dares to speak at all. Do you live anywhere near a University? Get your butt there and count how many white men there are in Professor's chairs. Then count how many of the tenured Professors are white men. Then count how many of the head administrators are white men. Absolute delusion.

leereeves 9y ago
Now count how many are willing to speak up in favor of bringing manufacturing jobs back to the US or in favor of race-blind admissions. Count how many have done so and kept their jobs. If all you care about is skin color you're missing my point.
- scarface74 9y ago
  Are they also willing to speak up against "legacy admissions"? I doubt very seriously that people are opposed to bringing back jobs to America. What politician has a platform of "we want to send jobs overseas"?
  - leereeves 9y ago
    Bringing jobs back to America does seem reasonable, right? But as far as I've seen, very few leaders in academia, business, government, or the media have spoken against globalization. Of course, I might be wrong, so please feel free to show me the many leaders who've opposed globalization and the receptive responses of the institutions they work for.
    - scarface74 9y ago
      There is a difference between “speaking against globalizarion” and increasing jobs in America. How do you propose we decrease globalization? Impose tariffs, cause a trade war, and increase prices for everyone? There is a company called Softwear trying to brIng clothe manufacturing back to the US. But they plan to automate everything and hire a very few engineers. How does that help the “working class”? The ship on globalization has sailed. Republicans use to believe in the free market that was back when manufacturing jobs were strong. But now that the “working class in middle America” is hurting, they like “big government” interfering with the free market. and more regulation because it helps them.
      - leereeves 9y ago
        "RNC Republicans" still believe in globalization. Republican voters have been opposed to globalization for a long time but until Trump they had few voting choices that reflected that. And the ship hasn't sailed on globalization. China is bringing protectionism back whatever we do. Will protectionism raise prices? On manufactured goods, perhaps. But manufactured goods are a small portion of our expenses compared to rents, food, and energy, and if protectionism also raises wages it will mean more Americans can afford to live well.
        scarface74 9y ago
        So in other words we should all pay a subsidy to help the "working class"? That's exactly what a tariff is. I thought conservatives were against forcing people to pay taxes and "big government" and we should let the free market decide - or do they just feel that way about health care? All wages won't rise because of manufacturing jobs. Just those for manufacturing. It's basically "redistributing" money from those who aren't in the manufacturing industry to those who are. I also thought that conservatives were against "redistribution", or are they for it when it helps "working class Middle America"?
        leereeves 9y ago
        I'd love to continue this discussion but apparently I've been rate-limited for some reason, and suddenly I'm only allowed one post every 2 hours. I'll close with this: We already pay subsidies for all kinds of things. Why not pay one to help the working class? ---- Response to below: I do think any injustice is immoral but subsidies aren't injustice. We pay lots of subsidies. I never said subsidies are immoral. And don't confuse manufacturing with "rural America". There are lots of working class people in the cities who once found employment in manufacturing. Farm subsidies do nothing for them. And if you only want to read a study (and will consider no other facts) here's a study showing men receive much longer prison sentences than women for the same crime: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2144002 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2144002 ---- > What should we "believe" other than studies? Statistics? Like the statistics on male victims of domestic violence vs the legal protections and shelters available to men. Or the statistics on boys vs girls expelled from preschool, boys medicated, the number of male vs female teachers, etc. And have you read that study yet? You seemed so insistent to read a study, I thought you might have some comments about it.
peoplewindow 9y ago
And how many of them are in those positions because their professorship was advertised as being exclusively for white men only? How many of them were unqualified, but given the job over a more qualified woman, just because they were a man? I'm sure there are cases of that happening, somewhere. But I can point to multiple examples in the past year alone of jobs being advertised explicitly and in writing as not being open to white men. I do not recall ever seeing jobs being advertised as not open to women. As it is, you're pointing at a disparity and implying - but not even outright stating - that it must be due to bias, or that white men can't possibly be being attacked or can't possibly fear for their careers, merely because there are a lot of them. Would you have made the same sorts of arguments about black slaves, on the grounds that there were loads of non-enslaved blacks in Africa at the time of the slave ships, so clearly they couldn't be that oppressed. I mean just look at the quantities. Clearly you would not have made that argument because it'd be bogus. Merely having a common attribute doesn't imply you can't be oppressed.
- scarface74 9y ago
  You can speak anecdotally all day long. But can you show studies where controlling for all other variables, white men are less likely to get jobs, promotions, raises, leases mortgages, accepted into college, etc.?
  - leereeves 9y ago
    Men are only about 40% of college students. Male unemployment is higher. I have no data on the others.
    - scarface74 9y ago
      That’s not what I asked. Can you find studies where equally qualified white men were denied opportunities, controlling for all other variables suffered harm because of their color or gender? I can post studies where the opposite has happened in housing, hiring, and the criminal justice system.

leereeves 9y ago

Now count how many are willing to speak up in favor of bringing manufacturing jobs back to the US or in favor of race-blind admissions. Count how many have done so and kept their jobs. If all you care about is skin color you're missing my point.

scarface74 9y ago
Are they also willing to speak up against "legacy admissions"? I doubt very seriously that people are opposed to bringing back jobs to America. What politician has a platform of "we want to send jobs overseas"?
- leereeves 9y ago
  Bringing jobs back to America does seem reasonable, right? But as far as I've seen, very few leaders in academia, business, government, or the media have spoken against globalization. Of course, I might be wrong, so please feel free to show me the many leaders who've opposed globalization and the receptive responses of the institutions they work for.
  - scarface74 9y ago
    There is a difference between “speaking against globalizarion” and increasing jobs in America. How do you propose we decrease globalization? Impose tariffs, cause a trade war, and increase prices for everyone? There is a company called Softwear trying to brIng clothe manufacturing back to the US. But they plan to automate everything and hire a very few engineers. How does that help the “working class”? The ship on globalization has sailed. Republicans use to believe in the free market that was back when manufacturing jobs were strong. But now that the “working class in middle America” is hurting, they like “big government” interfering with the free market. and more regulation because it helps them.
    - leereeves 9y ago
      "RNC Republicans" still believe in globalization. Republican voters have been opposed to globalization for a long time but until Trump they had few voting choices that reflected that. And the ship hasn't sailed on globalization. China is bringing protectionism back whatever we do. Will protectionism raise prices? On manufactured goods, perhaps. But manufactured goods are a small portion of our expenses compared to rents, food, and energy, and if protectionism also raises wages it will mean more Americans can afford to live well.
      - scarface74 9y ago
        So in other words we should all pay a subsidy to help the "working class"? That's exactly what a tariff is. I thought conservatives were against forcing people to pay taxes and "big government" and we should let the free market decide - or do they just feel that way about health care? All wages won't rise because of manufacturing jobs. Just those for manufacturing. It's basically "redistributing" money from those who aren't in the manufacturing industry to those who are. I also thought that conservatives were against "redistribution", or are they for it when it helps "working class Middle America"?
        leereeves 9y ago
        I'd love to continue this discussion but apparently I've been rate-limited for some reason, and suddenly I'm only allowed one post every 2 hours. I'll close with this: We already pay subsidies for all kinds of things. Why not pay one to help the working class? ---- Response to below: I do think any injustice is immoral but subsidies aren't injustice. We pay lots of subsidies. I never said subsidies are immoral. And don't confuse manufacturing with "rural America". There are lots of working class people in the cities who once found employment in manufacturing. Farm subsidies do nothing for them. And if you only want to read a study (and will consider no other facts) here's a study showing men receive much longer prison sentences than women for the same crime: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2144002 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2144002 ---- > What should we "believe" other than studies? Statistics? Like the statistics on male victims of domestic violence vs the legal protections and shelters available to men. Or the statistics on boys vs girls expelled from preschool, boys medicated, the number of male vs female teachers, etc. And have you read that study yet? You seemed so insistent to read a study, I thought you might have some comments about it.

peoplewindow 9y ago

And how many of them are in those positions because their professorship was advertised as being exclusively for white men only? How many of them were unqualified, but given the job over a more qualified woman, just because they were a man? I'm sure there are cases of that happening, somewhere. But I can point to multiple examples in the past year alone of jobs being advertised explicitly and in writing as not being open to white men. I do not recall ever seeing jobs being advertised as not open to women. As it is, you're pointing at a disparity and implying - but not even outright stating - that it must be due to bias, or that white men can't possibly be being attacked or can't possibly fear for their careers, merely because there are a lot of them. Would you have made the same sorts of arguments about black slaves, on the grounds that there were loads of non-enslaved blacks in Africa at the time of the slave ships, so clearly they couldn't be that oppressed. I mean just look at the quantities. Clearly you would not have made that argument because it'd be bogus. Merely having a common attribute doesn't imply you can't be oppressed.

scarface74 9y ago
You can speak anecdotally all day long. But can you show studies where controlling for all other variables, white men are less likely to get jobs, promotions, raises, leases mortgages, accepted into college, etc.?
- leereeves 9y ago
  Men are only about 40% of college students. Male unemployment is higher. I have no data on the others.
  - scarface74 9y ago
    That’s not what I asked. Can you find studies where equally qualified white men were denied opportunities, controlling for all other variables suffered harm because of their color or gender? I can post studies where the opposite has happened in housing, hiring, and the criminal justice system.