5 ms·

Why bother when you can still vote in American federal elections without being required to show ID? As an Australian i just find this refusal to do this as bon

Why bother when you can still vote in American federal elections without being required to show ID? As an Australian i just find this refusal to do this as bonkers considering we have a much lesser issue when it comes to election fraud.

stevenwoo 9y ago
Send in my ballot by mail for all elections and sign it. Election fraud is a miniscule problem in the USA, there's probably a bigger problem with e-voting not counting the votes correctly with all the unauditable systems being used currently. The only people who claim the USA has a signficant voter fraud problem are trying to suppress turnout among minorities.
- shard972 9y ago
  I'm sorry but what is your counterpoint? That you don't provide ID so voter fraud is not an issue? This is kind of what i'm saying, that in a system where there is no ID checks, what stops fraud from occurring other than people stating "we haven't found it at a large scale at this time". I live in Australia, why would i be interested in suppressing minority voters in the USA? I don't even get the chain of logic in claiming this. How does asking for ID when voting suppress minorities? Are minority citizen entitled to ID?
  - stevenwoo 9y ago
    Suppressing minority voters is the reason it is called for in the United States. The only people who think it is widespread in the United States are members of right wing organizations and generally states that had to have the Voting Rights Act of 1965 (made to stop the suppression of minority voters) imposed upon them by the federal government. The reason the type of voter fraud you are suggesting is rare is because it's not that effective at swinging an election and it's cheaper to buy a politician's vote legally in the USA. https://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/11/upshot/vote-fraud-is-rare-but-myth-is-widespread.html https://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/11/upshot/vote-fraud-is-rare...
dannyw 9y ago
As an Australian who has never shown ID to vote in any local, state, or federal election, where do you live? "In Australia, where voting is compulsory for all adult citizens, no form of ID is required to cast a ballot at an election; instead, voters are asked three questions before being issued a ballot, so that they can be checked off the electoral roll: (1) what is your full name; (2) where do you live; and (3) have you [voted in this election]" - Wikipedia
- shard972 9y ago
  > As an Australian who has never shown ID to vote in any local, state, or federal election, where do you live? I showed my ID at a voting poll on the Central Coast NSW in the 2013 federal election and in the previous state election of WA when i voted i was asked to show a drivers license.
coolso 9y ago
True but don’t you have a fraction of the illegal immigration that the USA has?
- threeseed 9y ago
  Well Australia has a fraction of the population so of course illegal immigration will be smaller. That said there is zero evidence that illegal immigration correlates with increased election fraud.
  - shard972 9y ago
    > That said there is zero evidence that illegal immigration correlates with increased election fraud. A lack of evidence about correlation doesn't mean it can't be true. Also your claim necessarily cannot be true unless there has never been a case of an illegal immigrant illegally voting, which there are. Because now I can say that with 0 illegal immigrants, you will have 0 illegal voters.
pavel_lishin 9y ago
In America, the instances of the kind of voter fraud you're talking about are so low that you can basically discount it as a factor: * https://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/debunking-voter-fraud-myth https://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/debunking-voter-fraud... * https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/18/us/voter-fraud.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/18/us/voter-fraud.html * https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/01/25/here-are-nine-major-investigations-on-voter-fraud-that-found-virtually-nothing/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/01/25/here-...

stevenwoo 9y ago

Send in my ballot by mail for all elections and sign it. Election fraud is a miniscule problem in the USA, there's probably a bigger problem with e-voting not counting the votes correctly with all the unauditable systems being used currently. The only people who claim the USA has a signficant voter fraud problem are trying to suppress turnout among minorities.

shard972 9y ago
I'm sorry but what is your counterpoint? That you don't provide ID so voter fraud is not an issue? This is kind of what i'm saying, that in a system where there is no ID checks, what stops fraud from occurring other than people stating "we haven't found it at a large scale at this time". I live in Australia, why would i be interested in suppressing minority voters in the USA? I don't even get the chain of logic in claiming this. How does asking for ID when voting suppress minorities? Are minority citizen entitled to ID?
- stevenwoo 9y ago
  Suppressing minority voters is the reason it is called for in the United States. The only people who think it is widespread in the United States are members of right wing organizations and generally states that had to have the Voting Rights Act of 1965 (made to stop the suppression of minority voters) imposed upon them by the federal government. The reason the type of voter fraud you are suggesting is rare is because it's not that effective at swinging an election and it's cheaper to buy a politician's vote legally in the USA. https://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/11/upshot/vote-fraud-is-rare-but-myth-is-widespread.html https://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/11/upshot/vote-fraud-is-rare...

dannyw 9y ago

As an Australian who has never shown ID to vote in any local, state, or federal election, where do you live? "In Australia, where voting is compulsory for all adult citizens, no form of ID is required to cast a ballot at an election; instead, voters are asked three questions before being issued a ballot, so that they can be checked off the electoral roll: (1) what is your full name; (2) where do you live; and (3) have you [voted in this election]" - Wikipedia

shard972 9y ago
> As an Australian who has never shown ID to vote in any local, state, or federal election, where do you live? I showed my ID at a voting poll on the Central Coast NSW in the 2013 federal election and in the previous state election of WA when i voted i was asked to show a drivers license.

coolso 9y ago

True but don’t you have a fraction of the illegal immigration that the USA has?

threeseed 9y ago
Well Australia has a fraction of the population so of course illegal immigration will be smaller. That said there is zero evidence that illegal immigration correlates with increased election fraud.
- shard972 9y ago
  > That said there is zero evidence that illegal immigration correlates with increased election fraud. A lack of evidence about correlation doesn't mean it can't be true. Also your claim necessarily cannot be true unless there has never been a case of an illegal immigrant illegally voting, which there are. Because now I can say that with 0 illegal immigrants, you will have 0 illegal voters.

pavel_lishin 9y ago

In America, the instances of the kind of voter fraud you're talking about are so low that you can basically discount it as a factor: * https://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/debunking-voter-fraud-myth https://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/debunking-voter-fraud... * https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/18/us/voter-fraud.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/18/us/voter-fraud.html * https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/01/25/here-are-nine-major-investigations-on-voter-fraud-that-found-virtually-nothing/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/01/25/here-...