4 ms·

A red herring and whataboutism are two different things! A red herring seeks to tie someone's statement to Communism, and then dismiss it. For example, some pe

A red herring and whataboutism are two different things! A red herring seeks to tie someone's statement to Communism, and then dismiss it. For example, some people criticizing the GPL do that. This is whataboutism.

Jtsummers 9y ago
“Red herring” has nothing to do with communism. The expression greatly predates the idea (as a cohesive political philosophy) of communism. Red herrings are distractions and misdirections to pull you away from the intended topic or discussion.
- greglindahl 9y ago
  Hey, look at that! I mostly see literal Red herrings. But even though it pre-dates Marx, it's still not the same as whataboutism. (Edit: In case anyone misunderstands, I'm agreeing that even though I'm a native English speaker, the phrase "red herring" predates Marxism by a bunch of years, so my statement above was incorrect. From the downvotes I'm getting, apparently I wasn't initially clear about agreeing that I was incorrect.)
  - Jtsummers 9y ago
    > A red herring seeks to tie someone's statement to Communism, and then dismiss it. Your original description of "red herring" was clearly erroneous, I was trying to correct that for anyone who isn't a native English speaker. No point in misleading them with red herrings about communists when the phrase has nothing to do with it.
    - greglindahl 9y ago
      Um, congratulations? Is repeating yourself an important part of fixing my error? Did my second statement, which agreed that I was wrong, mislead anyone?
      - Jtsummers 9y ago
        I misread the intent and tone of your reply. Sorry. I deal with a lot of people in person who use a lot of rhetorical tricks and logical fallacies to perpetuate various false (and easily falsifiable, if they considered science valid) beliefs. So I've developed a low tolerance for misstatements like what I originally responded to and interpreted your reply to me as sarcastic rather than an honest reaction. Apologies for misinterpreting.
dragonwriter 9y ago
> A red herring and whataboutism are two different things! Whataboutism is a special case of red herring. > A red herring seeks to tie someone's statement to Communism, and then dismiss it. No, that would mostly be a special case of guilt by association (though raising the question of the validity of the link to communism could itself be an example of the red herring.) https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/150/Red-Herring https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFalla...

Jtsummers 9y ago

“Red herring” has nothing to do with communism. The expression greatly predates the idea (as a cohesive political philosophy) of communism. Red herrings are distractions and misdirections to pull you away from the intended topic or discussion.

greglindahl 9y ago
Hey, look at that! I mostly see literal Red herrings. But even though it pre-dates Marx, it's still not the same as whataboutism. (Edit: In case anyone misunderstands, I'm agreeing that even though I'm a native English speaker, the phrase "red herring" predates Marxism by a bunch of years, so my statement above was incorrect. From the downvotes I'm getting, apparently I wasn't initially clear about agreeing that I was incorrect.)
- Jtsummers 9y ago
  > A red herring seeks to tie someone's statement to Communism, and then dismiss it. Your original description of "red herring" was clearly erroneous, I was trying to correct that for anyone who isn't a native English speaker. No point in misleading them with red herrings about communists when the phrase has nothing to do with it.
  - greglindahl 9y ago
    Um, congratulations? Is repeating yourself an important part of fixing my error? Did my second statement, which agreed that I was wrong, mislead anyone?
    - Jtsummers 9y ago
      I misread the intent and tone of your reply. Sorry. I deal with a lot of people in person who use a lot of rhetorical tricks and logical fallacies to perpetuate various false (and easily falsifiable, if they considered science valid) beliefs. So I've developed a low tolerance for misstatements like what I originally responded to and interpreted your reply to me as sarcastic rather than an honest reaction. Apologies for misinterpreting.

dragonwriter 9y ago

> A red herring and whataboutism are two different things! Whataboutism is a special case of red herring. > A red herring seeks to tie someone's statement to Communism, and then dismiss it. No, that would mostly be a special case of guilt by association (though raising the question of the validity of the link to communism could itself be an example of the red herring.) https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/150/Red-Herring https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFalla...