3 ms·

> If you're going to take a dump on the street, litter or shoot up drugs and leave your gross needle laying around, that absolutely should 100% be illegal. Ple

by dictum 9y ago

> If you're going to take a dump on the street, litter or shoot up drugs and leave your gross needle laying around, that absolutely should 100% be illegal. Please think about the implications of this well-meaning proposal. If you make it illegal, and the perpetrators are homeless people, they're unlikely to be able to afford a fine. Absent the fine, you can send them to jail. Does that sound like a good idea?

jarjoura 9y ago
Or they can pay with community service like any other person who can’t afford a fine. Maybe they can be forced to clean up the poo in other parts of the city.
- olliej 9y ago
  So they’re slaves? They have no bathroom, and therefore must forever clean up the city without being paid. Because they’re not being paid they /still/ can not afford a place to live, so still have no bathroom, so they end up with permanent community service. Cool beans.
  - nugi 9y ago
    You can choose not to be in one of the most expensive cities in the nation if you are poor. Its clear many homless call the area home because of better treatment than other cities. Its truly a catch 22.
    - RobLach 9y ago
      Is that actually clear? New York has a much higher percentage of homeless people per square mile yet it doesn’t feel as problematic because more of them are sheltered. According to HUD ~88% of SF’s homeless population is unsheltered whole only ~5% of New York’s is despite having more per square mile. San Francisco is more willing to leave this demographic on the streets so it’s more of a issue of policy, and a bad one at that: To feed / house / and provide essential medical care to a homeless person costs about $28000 / year according to a study by Pomeroy in Canada while HUD claims the cost to the tax payer for a homeless person is $40,000+ particularly because their only medical assistance is typically the emergency room. Why there is a homeless problem at all is something we should all consider.
      - freyir 9y ago
        > San Francisco is more willing to leave this demographic on the streets Maybe because the possibility of having thousands of homeless people freeze to death overnight in the streets isn't a perennial threat.
    - King-Aaron 9y ago
      How much does a ticket on an interstate bus cost in the US? I don't know if someone collecting quarters in a paper cup is going to get even fifty dollars together reliably for that. I don't think you have a great deal of choices when you have literally no resources at your disposal.
      - olliej 9y ago
        interstate to where though? For the sake of argument say an interstate is $20 (I assume it's actually more). Do you choose to spend it on a bus to somewhere you've never been, and without anyone you know, or on a meal? Seriously curious as to what the response is? SF has a slew of problems w.r.t housing costs, but in general every study has shown that it's much cheaper overall to provide housing and/or money to people than paying for assistance. Instead we waste money out of the fear of giving money to people who don't try to stop relying on that money.
  - gbin 9y ago
    There are public guarded bathrooms in the area. I have not seen any line there but to be honest I went in the area once a week for 3 years. When you see people literally doodling with their diarrhea, it doesn't feel like prison or community service should be the universal answer for them.
    - olliej 9y ago
      There are a few bathrooms in heavily touristed areas of the city, but that's far from most of the city. The guarded bathrooms are essentially for drunk people and tourists. Homeless people are pretty much screwed.

by dictum 9y ago

jarjoura 9y ago

Or they can pay with community service like any other person who can’t afford a fine. Maybe they can be forced to clean up the poo in other parts of the city.

olliej 9y ago
So they’re slaves? They have no bathroom, and therefore must forever clean up the city without being paid. Because they’re not being paid they /still/ can not afford a place to live, so still have no bathroom, so they end up with permanent community service. Cool beans.
- nugi 9y ago
  You can choose not to be in one of the most expensive cities in the nation if you are poor. Its clear many homless call the area home because of better treatment than other cities. Its truly a catch 22.
  - RobLach 9y ago
    Is that actually clear? New York has a much higher percentage of homeless people per square mile yet it doesn’t feel as problematic because more of them are sheltered. According to HUD ~88% of SF’s homeless population is unsheltered whole only ~5% of New York’s is despite having more per square mile. San Francisco is more willing to leave this demographic on the streets so it’s more of a issue of policy, and a bad one at that: To feed / house / and provide essential medical care to a homeless person costs about $28000 / year according to a study by Pomeroy in Canada while HUD claims the cost to the tax payer for a homeless person is $40,000+ particularly because their only medical assistance is typically the emergency room. Why there is a homeless problem at all is something we should all consider.
    - freyir 9y ago
      > San Francisco is more willing to leave this demographic on the streets Maybe because the possibility of having thousands of homeless people freeze to death overnight in the streets isn't a perennial threat.
  - King-Aaron 9y ago
    How much does a ticket on an interstate bus cost in the US? I don't know if someone collecting quarters in a paper cup is going to get even fifty dollars together reliably for that. I don't think you have a great deal of choices when you have literally no resources at your disposal.
    - olliej 9y ago
      interstate to where though? For the sake of argument say an interstate is $20 (I assume it's actually more). Do you choose to spend it on a bus to somewhere you've never been, and without anyone you know, or on a meal? Seriously curious as to what the response is? SF has a slew of problems w.r.t housing costs, but in general every study has shown that it's much cheaper overall to provide housing and/or money to people than paying for assistance. Instead we waste money out of the fear of giving money to people who don't try to stop relying on that money.
- gbin 9y ago
  There are public guarded bathrooms in the area. I have not seen any line there but to be honest I went in the area once a week for 3 years. When you see people literally doodling with their diarrhea, it doesn't feel like prison or community service should be the universal answer for them.
  - olliej 9y ago
    There are a few bathrooms in heavily touristed areas of the city, but that's far from most of the city. The guarded bathrooms are essentially for drunk people and tourists. Homeless people are pretty much screwed.