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But that isn't how equality works. A heavily skewed field, tech for example, isn't going to self-correct. Even with the diversity efforts, tech remains hostile
by asteli 9y ago
But that isn't how equality works. A heavily skewed field, tech for example, isn't going to self-correct. Even with the diversity efforts, tech remains hostile to underrepresented populations.
Ask a woman in tech, or a black man in tech what their experience is. Often there's an unstated assumption that they don't belong, or that they're at a lower level. I'm south asian, and when I visit my work's offices on the east coast, I get pegged as an electrical technician rather than an engineer. /And I'm in the in-group generally/.
I'd also argue that 50% is a much better goal for gender diversity in engineering than the ~10% representation women have currently, especially considering that the gender equilibrium point for engineering is currently unknowable due to the massive systemic discrimination/opportunity problems.
- barrkel 9y agoEverybody knows this argument, you don't need to trot it out. The issue at hand is in how it is applied as a lever for power by the people who apply it. Remember: meta-criticism.
- gizmo686 9y agoIt sounds like you are arguing for equality of outcomes.
- asteli 9y ago"Equality of Outcomes" sounds like something that would be relevant when you have a pool of candidates to compare against each other. There's a lot more to hiring than selecting from a candidate pool though. Where and how you recruit, outreach, building candidate pipelines, etc. Maybe I'm wrong in my understanding of "Equality of Outcomes," but I don't see that concept as being inextricably linked with targeting a particular gender split. If you only target female candidates for a year, is that enforcement of "Equality of Outcomes," despite having relatively fewer male candidates to compare against?
- stcredzero 9y agoBut that isn't how equality works. A heavily skewed field, tech for example, isn't going to self-correct. I have no problem with front-loaded incentives. Google started recruiting directly on the campus of Howard University, and they have the numbers to show that it actually revealed qualified applicants that would otherwise have been missed. But mandated quotas which are equality of outcome are problematic to meritocracy itself. Equality of Outcome logically contradicts Equality of Opportunity, and must be rejected.
- arkades 9y agoI don’t agree with you, but I am upvoting you because you are contributing meaningfully to the conversation with earnest discussion and a valid, if IMO incorrect, viewpoint. I am disheartened to see your post greying out.
- gizmo686 9y agoSometimes people do not downvote individual comments, but rather a sequence of comments. More specifically, there might be behavior that is only apparent when looking at multiple comments that justifies the downvoting, even if the actual downvote happens to be applied to an individual comment. In this case, in the span of two comments, the poster went from: >Do people actually argue in favor of equality of outcomes? Can't say I've ever seen this done, but then again I haven't seen everything. to arguing in favor of equality of outcomes. Individually, both of these posts are fine; but together are problematic.
- stcredzero 9y agoIndividually, both of these posts are fine; but together are problematic. So either this is a troll, or it's an example of someone so "ideologically possessed" they think they're justified to lie in pursuit of their goals.
- asteli 9y agoI'm disappointed that you've marked me as someone with an ulterior motive. If I have a logical inconsistency, feel free to point that out without making assumptions about my intentions.
- stcredzero 9y agoOkay, sorry, I left out the possibility that you're just mistaken. So you're mistaken. There, fixed it for people who actually read carefully.
- 9y ago