> no good programmer wants to actually join because its not sexy. (coal mining, medical equipment, etc) Good programmers don't want to join these kinds of jobs

> no good programmer wants to actually join because its not sexy. (coal mining, medical equipment, etc) Good programmers don't want to join these kinds of jobs because most normal businesses don't understand software engineering or the market and treat it like a cost center. I started out my software career by writing vb macros in excel and saved my "boring business" company hundreds of thousands as a side effort to my normal job. Yet I couldn't get any traction to do it full time or to have autonomy or to get a meaningful (30-50%) pay increase to match the dev market salary.