3 ms·

As I have explained before, in Spain an optician does not charge anything for it because it’s ridiculously simple and it’s a small percentage of the effort that

As I have explained before, in Spain an optician does not charge anything for it because it’s ridiculously simple and it’s a small percentage of the effort that an optician needs to do for a prescription. This test is different of a blood test for example. You don’t need to control the evolution weekly, or even monthly. This is one of the most simple screening process. Because it’s easy to train the model with tons of images already made by opticians and optometrists. It does not have any value, it’s too simple. My brother is an optician and has a huge database with retina images. If even me with limited knowledge of ML and my brother as field expert could train a model to detect blood pressure problems. Too simple, no value.

ceejayoz 9y ago
You're missing a very key point. Many people with normal eyesight never see an optician. They might use a kiosk at the grocery store. It's also a first step proof-of-concept towards harder diagnoses.
- logronoide 9y ago
  As I said, not only opticians can do it. A family doctor with a lantern can do it (and they do). It’s not an ML or AI challenge at all.
  - ceejayoz 9y ago
    There are plenty of Americans who don't have access to a "family doctor". Not everyone can afford or bothers to get an annual checkup. Same reason grocery stores often have a "check your blood pressure" kiosk, or offer flu shots. It's quick, it's convenient, and you reach people who would otherwise miss out. Sure, a doctor or nurse can check your BP or give you the vaccine, but there's a significant benefit to expanded access.
    - logronoide 9y ago
      AI will not fix your healthcare system. Pharmas will charge people as much as they want to access to this screening service. They have been doing this for decades.
      - always_good 9y ago
        >AI will not fix your healthcare system You've moved the goalposts so much that I'm not sure what your point is anymore. Was it just to boast about Spain?
      - ceejayoz 9y ago
        Why would pharmaceutical companies be involved in this? As you say, it's a super easy scan needing minimal equipment - a light and a camera. I can get a free blood pressure reading at my grocery store via an automated kiosk - no nurse or doctor required. This would likely be similar.
    - txcwpalpha 9y ago
      >but there's a significant benefit to expanded access. I agree that expanded access to diagnostic tools is great, but access to diagnostic tools is only part of the problem. Access to care following your diagnosis is just as, if not more, important. What are you going to do after this kiosk tells you that you have heart disease? The proper answer is: go see your doctor. But if you're someone who is in a situation where you don't have access to a family doctor, your situation has not improved.
      - ceejayoz 9y ago
        > What are you going to do after this kiosk tells you that you have heart disease? The proper answer is: go see your doctor. But if you're someone who is in a situation where you don't have access to a family doctor, your situation has not improved. First, this scan doesn't give you a diagnosis. It tells you you're at higher risk for a heart attack. There are free lifestyle changes that can be made to reduce that risk once it's known. Second, lots of low to middle income folks have to decide what to spend money on. An annual routine eye exam might not meet the "must have" threshold. A "you might have a heart attack" might make it worth going to the doctor and paying the copay.
amingilani 9y ago
Simple? Yes but there's absolutely value in this. In Pakistan I've never had an opthalmologist comment on my retina before, despite wearing glasses since I was a child. Not everyone has an opthalmologist brother, or is a machine learning engineer. You should have used this to your advantage to make something like this. How many startups make simple applications? Uber is a simple marketplace, as is Airbnb, and PayPal is a glorified accounting database. Please don't downplay the impact of a product because of its simplicity.
- logronoide 9y ago
  AI and ML should take mankind to a new level. This article describes something that opticians and optometrist have been doing for a long time with a more classic computing algorithmic approach.
  - elarahn 9y ago
    What's wrong with simple; if simple works ?

ceejayoz 9y ago

You're missing a very key point. Many people with normal eyesight never see an optician. They might use a kiosk at the grocery store. It's also a first step proof-of-concept towards harder diagnoses.

logronoide 9y ago
As I said, not only opticians can do it. A family doctor with a lantern can do it (and they do). It’s not an ML or AI challenge at all.
- ceejayoz 9y ago
  There are plenty of Americans who don't have access to a "family doctor". Not everyone can afford or bothers to get an annual checkup. Same reason grocery stores often have a "check your blood pressure" kiosk, or offer flu shots. It's quick, it's convenient, and you reach people who would otherwise miss out. Sure, a doctor or nurse can check your BP or give you the vaccine, but there's a significant benefit to expanded access.
  - logronoide 9y ago
    AI will not fix your healthcare system. Pharmas will charge people as much as they want to access to this screening service. They have been doing this for decades.
    - always_good 9y ago
      >AI will not fix your healthcare system You've moved the goalposts so much that I'm not sure what your point is anymore. Was it just to boast about Spain?
    - ceejayoz 9y ago
      Why would pharmaceutical companies be involved in this? As you say, it's a super easy scan needing minimal equipment - a light and a camera. I can get a free blood pressure reading at my grocery store via an automated kiosk - no nurse or doctor required. This would likely be similar.
  - txcwpalpha 9y ago
    >but there's a significant benefit to expanded access. I agree that expanded access to diagnostic tools is great, but access to diagnostic tools is only part of the problem. Access to care following your diagnosis is just as, if not more, important. What are you going to do after this kiosk tells you that you have heart disease? The proper answer is: go see your doctor. But if you're someone who is in a situation where you don't have access to a family doctor, your situation has not improved.
    - ceejayoz 9y ago
      > What are you going to do after this kiosk tells you that you have heart disease? The proper answer is: go see your doctor. But if you're someone who is in a situation where you don't have access to a family doctor, your situation has not improved. First, this scan doesn't give you a diagnosis. It tells you you're at higher risk for a heart attack. There are free lifestyle changes that can be made to reduce that risk once it's known. Second, lots of low to middle income folks have to decide what to spend money on. An annual routine eye exam might not meet the "must have" threshold. A "you might have a heart attack" might make it worth going to the doctor and paying the copay.

amingilani 9y ago

Simple? Yes but there's absolutely value in this. In Pakistan I've never had an opthalmologist comment on my retina before, despite wearing glasses since I was a child. Not everyone has an opthalmologist brother, or is a machine learning engineer. You should have used this to your advantage to make something like this. How many startups make simple applications? Uber is a simple marketplace, as is Airbnb, and PayPal is a glorified accounting database. Please don't downplay the impact of a product because of its simplicity.

logronoide 9y ago
AI and ML should take mankind to a new level. This article describes something that opticians and optometrist have been doing for a long time with a more classic computing algorithmic approach.
- elarahn 9y ago
  What's wrong with simple; if simple works ?