6 ms·

San Francisco Spends $30M Cleaning Feces, Drug Needles

26 points by dangrover 9y ago

jarjoura 9y ago
I constantly hear how much money and time and resources SF spends on the homeless problem in this city. If you're going to take a dump on the street, litter or shoot up drugs and leave your gross needle laying around, that absolutely should 100% be illegal. This doesn't have to do with being homeless, and everything to do with having bad manners without consequences for your actions.
- dictum 9y ago
  > If you're going to take a dump on the street, litter or shoot up drugs and leave your gross needle laying around, that absolutely should 100% be illegal. Please think about the implications of this well-meaning proposal. If you make it illegal, and the perpetrators are homeless people, they're unlikely to be able to afford a fine. Absent the fine, you can send them to jail. Does that sound like a good idea?
  - jarjoura 9y ago
    Or they can pay with community service like any other person who can’t afford a fine. Maybe they can be forced to clean up the poo in other parts of the city.
    - olliej 9y ago
      So they’re slaves? They have no bathroom, and therefore must forever clean up the city without being paid. Because they’re not being paid they /still/ can not afford a place to live, so still have no bathroom, so they end up with permanent community service. Cool beans.
      - nugi 9y ago
        You can choose not to be in one of the most expensive cities in the nation if you are poor. Its clear many homless call the area home because of better treatment than other cities. Its truly a catch 22.
        RobLach 9y ago
        Is that actually clear? New York has a much higher percentage of homeless people per square mile yet it doesn’t feel as problematic because more of them are sheltered. According to HUD ~88% of SF’s homeless population is unsheltered whole only ~5% of New York’s is despite having more per square mile. San Francisco is more willing to leave this demographic on the streets so it’s more of a issue of policy, and a bad one at that: To feed / house / and provide essential medical care to a homeless person costs about $28000 / year according to a study by Pomeroy in Canada while HUD claims the cost to the tax payer for a homeless person is $40,000+ particularly because their only medical assistance is typically the emergency room. Why there is a homeless problem at all is something we should all consider.
        freyir 9y ago
        > San Francisco is more willing to leave this demographic on the streets Maybe because the possibility of having thousands of homeless people freeze to death overnight in the streets isn't a perennial threat.
        King-Aaron 9y ago
        How much does a ticket on an interstate bus cost in the US? I don't know if someone collecting quarters in a paper cup is going to get even fifty dollars together reliably for that. I don't think you have a great deal of choices when you have literally no resources at your disposal.
        olliej 9y ago
        interstate to where though? For the sake of argument say an interstate is $20 (I assume it's actually more). Do you choose to spend it on a bus to somewhere you've never been, and without anyone you know, or on a meal? Seriously curious as to what the response is? SF has a slew of problems w.r.t housing costs, but in general every study has shown that it's much cheaper overall to provide housing and/or money to people than paying for assistance. Instead we waste money out of the fear of giving money to people who don't try to stop relying on that money.
- marcinzm 9y ago
  >If you're going to take a dump on the street, litter or shoot up drugs and leave your gross needle laying around, that absolutely should 100% be illegal. This doesn't have to do with being homeless, and everything to do with having bad manners without consequences for your actions. And now you're paying 10x as much to house them in a jail while probably increasing their chances of future illegal activity.
  - jarjoura 9y ago
    Who says jail time is the only way out of that?
    - olliej 9y ago
      What is the response you’d have that isn’t jail time? I’m genuinely curious
    - marcinzm 9y ago
      Good luck getting anything else to actually stick to people suffering from a mix of medical issues, mental illness, and addiction.
    - setr 9y ago
      What're you going to do, fine them? Evict them from the city outright?
- zaptheimpaler 9y ago
  Its pretty easy to imagine scenarios where taking a dump on the road is the only option for a homeless person - all it takes is a bug from bad food (which they probably get plenty of) causing an ahem ..urgency.. , and no access to a bathroom either due to lines, fees, or shops not letting them in. Throwing someone in jail for stuff like that is harsh.
sushid 9y ago
IIRC part of this is because SF decided to switch from a needle exchange program to a needle distribution program. And nearly all of these locations are in TL, SOMA, Mission, and a few in Castro. I imagine that our lawmakers would do something faster if these centers were moved to Pac Heights.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > I imagine that our lawmakers would do something faster if these centers were moved to Pac Heights. If by “do something” you mean “mandate that they be moved back to their current locations”, sure.

26 points by dangrover 9y ago

I constantly hear how much money and time and resources SF spends on the homeless problem in this city. If you're going to take a dump on the street, litter or shoot up drugs and leave your gross needle laying around, that absolutely should 100% be illegal. This doesn't have to do with being homeless, and everything to do with having bad manners without consequences for your actions.

dictum 9y ago
> If you're going to take a dump on the street, litter or shoot up drugs and leave your gross needle laying around, that absolutely should 100% be illegal. Please think about the implications of this well-meaning proposal. If you make it illegal, and the perpetrators are homeless people, they're unlikely to be able to afford a fine. Absent the fine, you can send them to jail. Does that sound like a good idea?
- jarjoura 9y ago
  Or they can pay with community service like any other person who can’t afford a fine. Maybe they can be forced to clean up the poo in other parts of the city.
  - olliej 9y ago
    So they’re slaves? They have no bathroom, and therefore must forever clean up the city without being paid. Because they’re not being paid they /still/ can not afford a place to live, so still have no bathroom, so they end up with permanent community service. Cool beans.
    - nugi 9y ago
      You can choose not to be in one of the most expensive cities in the nation if you are poor. Its clear many homless call the area home because of better treatment than other cities. Its truly a catch 22.
      - RobLach 9y ago
        Is that actually clear? New York has a much higher percentage of homeless people per square mile yet it doesn’t feel as problematic because more of them are sheltered. According to HUD ~88% of SF’s homeless population is unsheltered whole only ~5% of New York’s is despite having more per square mile. San Francisco is more willing to leave this demographic on the streets so it’s more of a issue of policy, and a bad one at that: To feed / house / and provide essential medical care to a homeless person costs about $28000 / year according to a study by Pomeroy in Canada while HUD claims the cost to the tax payer for a homeless person is $40,000+ particularly because their only medical assistance is typically the emergency room. Why there is a homeless problem at all is something we should all consider.
        freyir 9y ago
        > San Francisco is more willing to leave this demographic on the streets Maybe because the possibility of having thousands of homeless people freeze to death overnight in the streets isn't a perennial threat.
      - King-Aaron 9y ago
        How much does a ticket on an interstate bus cost in the US? I don't know if someone collecting quarters in a paper cup is going to get even fifty dollars together reliably for that. I don't think you have a great deal of choices when you have literally no resources at your disposal.
        olliej 9y ago
        interstate to where though? For the sake of argument say an interstate is $20 (I assume it's actually more). Do you choose to spend it on a bus to somewhere you've never been, and without anyone you know, or on a meal? Seriously curious as to what the response is? SF has a slew of problems w.r.t housing costs, but in general every study has shown that it's much cheaper overall to provide housing and/or money to people than paying for assistance. Instead we waste money out of the fear of giving money to people who don't try to stop relying on that money.
marcinzm 9y ago
>If you're going to take a dump on the street, litter or shoot up drugs and leave your gross needle laying around, that absolutely should 100% be illegal. This doesn't have to do with being homeless, and everything to do with having bad manners without consequences for your actions. And now you're paying 10x as much to house them in a jail while probably increasing their chances of future illegal activity.
- jarjoura 9y ago
  Who says jail time is the only way out of that?
  - olliej 9y ago
    What is the response you’d have that isn’t jail time? I’m genuinely curious
  - marcinzm 9y ago
    Good luck getting anything else to actually stick to people suffering from a mix of medical issues, mental illness, and addiction.
  - setr 9y ago
    What're you going to do, fine them? Evict them from the city outright?
zaptheimpaler 9y ago
Its pretty easy to imagine scenarios where taking a dump on the road is the only option for a homeless person - all it takes is a bug from bad food (which they probably get plenty of) causing an ahem ..urgency.. , and no access to a bathroom either due to lines, fees, or shops not letting them in. Throwing someone in jail for stuff like that is harsh.

sushid 9y ago

IIRC part of this is because SF decided to switch from a needle exchange program to a needle distribution program. And nearly all of these locations are in TL, SOMA, Mission, and a few in Castro. I imagine that our lawmakers would do something faster if these centers were moved to Pac Heights.

dragonwriter 9y ago
> I imagine that our lawmakers would do something faster if these centers were moved to Pac Heights. If by “do something” you mean “mandate that they be moved back to their current locations”, sure.