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You are taking this way too far as an argument. Russia at the time was miles and miles behind any Western nation in terms of development. They knew it, which is

You are taking this way too far as an argument. Russia at the time was miles and miles behind any Western nation in terms of development. They knew it, which is why they thought their revolution would fail unless Western nations, German workers in particular, would start their own revolution. So they already started with a huge handicap - on top of that WWI and the civil war after the revolution, which was a fight tooth and nail, as bad as it gets, put them down even further. So even if the "experiment" would have stopped right then and there and they would have switched to pure capitalism, what kind of development would you have expected? This is not to take anything away from your mention of their propaganda efforts to appear a lot bigger than they are, but your argument leaves out some important "details".

thriftwy 9y ago
> So even if the "experiment" would have stopped right then and there and they would have switched to pure capitalism, what kind of development would you have expected? I would expect something more like 350 million strong Norway, not 140 million strong Honduras that is the result of a century of communist experiment. I am often reminded that Eastern Europe was always poor. Guess what? So were Norway at the time of divergence. Moreover, poverty and corruption is a direct result of communism that can't be ignored.
- ThrowMeDown01 9y ago
  Russia was not poor and corrupt under the Tsar, it was the Bolshevists that caused it all? Really? Yes, heroic efforts are possible, see Japan or South Korea. Doesn't change what I wrote, especially since the OP comment was about a time shortly after the revolution. Nobody is disputing the horrible and stupid things that happened in Russia at the time. Nothing worse than people on a mission to save the world at any cost.
- thriftwy 9y ago
  @ThrowMeDown01 Under Tsar Russia had a chance. Now it no longer has any because it is now dead and wasted away, just like your account (UPD: It's unblocked, so now Russia is in worse state than your account). It's an empty broken shell. And that, kids, is the result of communism. You die on that stuff.
  - dang 9y ago
    Your comments are crossing both into ideological flamewar and personal attack. Please stop.
- tpm 9y ago
  Well, Norway discovered oil and managed to distribute the profits evenly (I think). Not many oil-rich countries did that. And regarding Eastern Europe, it was not always poor, for example the Czech part of Czechoslovakia was more prosperous than Austria both before and immediately after WW2, but that changed during communism and Austria is still much more prosperous nearly 30 years after the fall of communism.
  - thriftwy 9y ago
    You see the irony, right? Norway, capitalistic, manages to distribute the profits. USSR, communistic, fails. It spends all the oil and gas and all other minerals known to man on communisty things like insane amount of weaponry, help to fellow communist regimes who never pay back, etc, etc. But its citizens lead the life so miserable that the only joy is binge drinking and the country dissipates overnight. And from this point it only gets worse.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
trhway 9y ago
>So even if the "experiment" would have stopped right then and there and they would have switched to pure capitalism, what kind of development would you have expected? this is exactly what was done when the things hit the rock bottom. It was a choice - either continue the "experiment" and everybody dies from hunger ... or pause the "experiment". They paused it. It is called "New Economic Policy" - remotely similar to what China does today. Allowing limited capitalism. As result the country almost immediately rocketed into economic recovery. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Economic_Policy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Economic_Policy
- ThrowMeDown01 9y ago
  Or, for those who prefer to listen to a lecture: Lenin and the Russian Revolution - Professor Catherine Merridale FBA -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRIzW7A9lhs&feature=youtu.be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRIzW7A9lhs&feature=youtu.be The Fate of the October Revolution Under Stalin - Professor Bob Service -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5eP_HoNUx8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5eP_HoNUx8 If you only want to listen to one choose the first one, it's really good.

thriftwy 9y ago

> So even if the "experiment" would have stopped right then and there and they would have switched to pure capitalism, what kind of development would you have expected? I would expect something more like 350 million strong Norway, not 140 million strong Honduras that is the result of a century of communist experiment. I am often reminded that Eastern Europe was always poor. Guess what? So were Norway at the time of divergence. Moreover, poverty and corruption is a direct result of communism that can't be ignored.

ThrowMeDown01 9y ago
Russia was not poor and corrupt under the Tsar, it was the Bolshevists that caused it all? Really? Yes, heroic efforts are possible, see Japan or South Korea. Doesn't change what I wrote, especially since the OP comment was about a time shortly after the revolution. Nobody is disputing the horrible and stupid things that happened in Russia at the time. Nothing worse than people on a mission to save the world at any cost.
thriftwy 9y ago
@ThrowMeDown01 Under Tsar Russia had a chance. Now it no longer has any because it is now dead and wasted away, just like your account (UPD: It's unblocked, so now Russia is in worse state than your account). It's an empty broken shell. And that, kids, is the result of communism. You die on that stuff.
- dang 9y ago
  Your comments are crossing both into ideological flamewar and personal attack. Please stop.
tpm 9y ago
Well, Norway discovered oil and managed to distribute the profits evenly (I think). Not many oil-rich countries did that. And regarding Eastern Europe, it was not always poor, for example the Czech part of Czechoslovakia was more prosperous than Austria both before and immediately after WW2, but that changed during communism and Austria is still much more prosperous nearly 30 years after the fall of communism.
- thriftwy 9y ago
  You see the irony, right? Norway, capitalistic, manages to distribute the profits. USSR, communistic, fails. It spends all the oil and gas and all other minerals known to man on communisty things like insane amount of weaponry, help to fellow communist regimes who never pay back, etc, etc. But its citizens lead the life so miserable that the only joy is binge drinking and the country dissipates overnight. And from this point it only gets worse.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

trhway 9y ago

>So even if the "experiment" would have stopped right then and there and they would have switched to pure capitalism, what kind of development would you have expected? this is exactly what was done when the things hit the rock bottom. It was a choice - either continue the "experiment" and everybody dies from hunger ... or pause the "experiment". They paused it. It is called "New Economic Policy" - remotely similar to what China does today. Allowing limited capitalism. As result the country almost immediately rocketed into economic recovery. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Economic_Policy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Economic_Policy

ThrowMeDown01 9y ago
Or, for those who prefer to listen to a lecture: Lenin and the Russian Revolution - Professor Catherine Merridale FBA -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRIzW7A9lhs&feature=youtu.be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRIzW7A9lhs&feature=youtu.be The Fate of the October Revolution Under Stalin - Professor Bob Service -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5eP_HoNUx8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5eP_HoNUx8 If you only want to listen to one choose the first one, it's really good.