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No, I completely and fully blame the managers/founders for this. No matter how much you try to drill into their heads that this is throwaway code, once they see

No, I completely and fully blame the managers/founders for this. No matter how much you try to drill into their heads that this is throwaway code, once they see something, they get excited, and say "Ship it!"

chatmasta 9y ago
If the tradeoffs were valid and fully understood, the stakeholders would not logically come to the conclusion to “just ship it.” The only person who can explain the tradeoffs to them is the developer. Therefore, if they say “ship it!”, they are either wrong or missing information. If they are missing information, the developer is at fault for misinforming them of the tradeoffs necessary for decision making. If they are wrong, then either the developer has cited irrelevant or incorrect tradeoffs, or the developer made valid points but the stakeholders understand the tradeoffs and are willing to accept them.
- s73v3r_ 9y ago
  Or, the managers are idiots. You're trying really hard to bring this back to always being the developer's fault, and you're ignoring that, many times, management just doesn't listen. You can explain until you're blue in the face, but if they don't want to listen, nothing will make them do so.
  - chatmasta 9y ago
    Everybody is an idiot about most things. As an expert in a domain, your job is to help non-experts be less of an idiot when making decisions that depend on things you know better than them. You won’t get very far with a stonewalling attitude of “well, the manager was an idiot.” You need to establish trust and a working relationship where you both listen to each other.
    - Nnuie21 9y ago
      Making my boss less of an idiot is something outside of my control. I can tell them "don't do this" over and over again. If they do it anyway, how is that my fault?
    - s73v3r_ 9y ago
      In an ideal world, sure. But I live in the real world, where there are lots of managers that are just plain shitty, and no amount of explanation will change their mind. It just does not work at all. Blaming the developer is not a reasonable thing to do in that situation.
  - commandlinefan 9y ago
    > you're ignoring that, many times, management just doesn't listen And ignoring that, almost all of the time, the programmer has very little power in these sorts of transactions.

chatmasta 9y ago

If the tradeoffs were valid and fully understood, the stakeholders would not logically come to the conclusion to “just ship it.” The only person who can explain the tradeoffs to them is the developer. Therefore, if they say “ship it!”, they are either wrong or missing information. If they are missing information, the developer is at fault for misinforming them of the tradeoffs necessary for decision making. If they are wrong, then either the developer has cited irrelevant or incorrect tradeoffs, or the developer made valid points but the stakeholders understand the tradeoffs and are willing to accept them.

s73v3r_ 9y ago
Or, the managers are idiots. You're trying really hard to bring this back to always being the developer's fault, and you're ignoring that, many times, management just doesn't listen. You can explain until you're blue in the face, but if they don't want to listen, nothing will make them do so.
- chatmasta 9y ago
  Everybody is an idiot about most things. As an expert in a domain, your job is to help non-experts be less of an idiot when making decisions that depend on things you know better than them. You won’t get very far with a stonewalling attitude of “well, the manager was an idiot.” You need to establish trust and a working relationship where you both listen to each other.
  - Nnuie21 9y ago
    Making my boss less of an idiot is something outside of my control. I can tell them "don't do this" over and over again. If they do it anyway, how is that my fault?
  - s73v3r_ 9y ago
    In an ideal world, sure. But I live in the real world, where there are lots of managers that are just plain shitty, and no amount of explanation will change their mind. It just does not work at all. Blaming the developer is not a reasonable thing to do in that situation.
- commandlinefan 9y ago
  > you're ignoring that, many times, management just doesn't listen And ignoring that, almost all of the time, the programmer has very little power in these sorts of transactions.