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I keep seeing this argument, and wonder if we read the same memo. And to mirror your view, I'm getting pretty tired of people just brushing off criticism of the

by salvar 9y ago

I keep seeing this argument, and wonder if we read the same memo. And to mirror your view, I'm getting pretty tired of people just brushing off criticism of the memo as "Strawman! Fake news!" when it's anything but. I guess it's a successful tactic though.

peoplewindow 9y ago
Perhaps you posted elsewhere in the thread, but do you have any substantial criticism? I mean, beyond "that's a cartoonish view", which isn't really helpful to informed debate?
- salvar 9y ago
  I'm very sorry for not being helpful enough for you when I quoted the argument of another comment.
  - peoplewindow 9y ago
    Right - that's a no, then. I described the argument as a straw man because it is one. Damore verifiably did not say he thought women at Google were inferior. I'm not surprised you're tired of people saying "straw man!" in discussions about Damore: as I note, nobody seems to be able to argue that he's wrong, so they just attack things he didn't say, and then other people have to point that out. If you dislike that, then point out strawmen yourself. Perhaps eventually people who dislike Damore's perspective will then stop strawmanning him.
Veelox 9y ago
I think part of the problem with the memo is that it was written for an audience that was unbiased, not for a hostile audience. This means that when you read it after here how bad it was, you brain is primed to pick up on the phrases that are directly or indirectly offensive to women and you skip over all the qualifiers. If you pretty much agree with the basic premise you miss the offensive stuff and notice all of the qualifiers. It reminds me of all of the issues in the Ferguson shooting. Instantly we had "Hands up, Don't shoot" and "Criminal" being called by both sides. The stuff that is divisive goes viral and people on both sides shout about it. Alas, because it was imperfectly said by Damore, it is no longer safe to openly discuss if the gender gap in tech might be influenced by biology.

by salvar 9y ago

peoplewindow 9y ago

Perhaps you posted elsewhere in the thread, but do you have any substantial criticism? I mean, beyond "that's a cartoonish view", which isn't really helpful to informed debate?

salvar 9y ago
I'm very sorry for not being helpful enough for you when I quoted the argument of another comment.
- peoplewindow 9y ago
  Right - that's a no, then. I described the argument as a straw man because it is one. Damore verifiably did not say he thought women at Google were inferior. I'm not surprised you're tired of people saying "straw man!" in discussions about Damore: as I note, nobody seems to be able to argue that he's wrong, so they just attack things he didn't say, and then other people have to point that out. If you dislike that, then point out strawmen yourself. Perhaps eventually people who dislike Damore's perspective will then stop strawmanning him.

Veelox 9y ago

I think part of the problem with the memo is that it was written for an audience that was unbiased, not for a hostile audience. This means that when you read it after here how bad it was, you brain is primed to pick up on the phrases that are directly or indirectly offensive to women and you skip over all the qualifiers. If you pretty much agree with the basic premise you miss the offensive stuff and notice all of the qualifiers. It reminds me of all of the issues in the Ferguson shooting. Instantly we had "Hands up, Don't shoot" and "Criminal" being called by both sides. The stuff that is divisive goes viral and people on both sides shout about it. Alas, because it was imperfectly said by Damore, it is no longer safe to openly discuss if the gender gap in tech might be influenced by biology.