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"We’ve drilled the ocean floor for oil and gas, scarred it with trenches for communications cables, poisoned it with old radioactive waste and chemical weapons,

by pasta 9y ago

"We’ve drilled the ocean floor for oil and gas, scarred it with trenches for communications cables, poisoned it with old radioactive waste and chemical weapons, and polluted its remotest corners with a blizzard of discarded plastic. So, is mining a step too far?" "I put that question to Sir David Attenborough at the launch of his series Blue Planet II. When he sees our video of the giant machines being readied in Papua New Guinea, he is aghast. “It’s heartbreaking,” he says." This sums it up for me. Our greed is sad.

JoeAltmaier 9y ago
I'm not so sure. What's happened to the ocean floor is a tiny, tiny fraction of what we've done to the land. Its just invisible, which in my mind lets people's imaginations run free. A few cable trenches? We've got two or three crossing the lot my house is on, not to mention 3 billion other people's lots. Mining? This ocean-floor stuff won't be a patch on what the US has done to the southwest, nor what Russia's done in the Arctic. As for landfills, every city, town and berg has one. I can't dig a shovel of dirt from my field without finding a plastic fragment. So, not to say its all good, but its just so remote from what should be our true concerns.
- nerdponx 9y ago
  But the hydrothermal vents host thriving communities of marine life - snails, worms and shrimp that have evolved to cope with very specific conditions. In some cases these creatures are extremely rare, which is why the prospect of deep sea mining is highly controversial. You can't say the same for the earthworms and dandelions harmed by digging a trench in the yard in New England.
  - JoeAltmaier 9y ago
    We're largely unaware of the millions of extinct insects etc that humanity extinguished in our conquest of the 7 continents. Suffice it to say, all those that evolved on land for very specific conditions are long gone. Except for those we're bulldozing today without noticing.
- tomalpha 9y ago
  > I can't dig a shovel of dirt from my field without finding a plastic fragment This, in the wider environment, whether microbeads in fish or plastic bags in the ocean, is one of the greatest modern tragedies IMHO.
  - JoeAltmaier 9y ago
    I disagree. I'm not sure its at all significant. Whether the fish has sand or plastic fragments in its gut may be immaterial. This issue has been fastened onto by well-meaning folks without much study. Perversely, the fact that many fish have micro beads in them is encouraging - they clearly are surviving and reproducing despite the beads (or we wouldn't be finding them in such large numbers).
    - specialist 9y ago
      So, not a big fan of the hippocratic oath (precautionary principle)? I really don’t know how to respond to denial, whatsboutism, selective incredulity. Mostly, I give up. But know that when obstructionists finally get a clue, I’m fresh out of goodwill, and won’t be helping. Good luck.
      - JoeAltmaier 9y ago
        Sure, be cautious. But about what? Which things? Talk about isms, the tendency of the popular press to latch onto big obvious things and say "What about microplastic beads?!" Its something folks can see and get behind. Never mind there's not much evidence its actually a problem. We have a limited fund of energy, emotional and productive. To spend it on microplastic beads may well be the right direction. But is surely takes attention away from things that ARE definitely a problem. I'm not some Pollyanna ignorant person that's deliberately denying science or whatever. Just the opposite.
        specialist 9y ago
        "Never mind there's not much evidence its actually a problem." What measure of proof do you require, to convince you that it's a problem worthy of your attention?
cmsefton 9y ago
What I find most astonishing is the open admission that they are going to intentionally destroy thermal vents, which may be the origins of life on earth. The loss to science is incalculable, and the destruction of the life that lives around them is the equivalent of wiping out an entire ecosystem.

by pasta 9y ago

JoeAltmaier 9y ago

I'm not so sure. What's happened to the ocean floor is a tiny, tiny fraction of what we've done to the land. Its just invisible, which in my mind lets people's imaginations run free. A few cable trenches? We've got two or three crossing the lot my house is on, not to mention 3 billion other people's lots. Mining? This ocean-floor stuff won't be a patch on what the US has done to the southwest, nor what Russia's done in the Arctic. As for landfills, every city, town and berg has one. I can't dig a shovel of dirt from my field without finding a plastic fragment. So, not to say its all good, but its just so remote from what should be our true concerns.

nerdponx 9y ago
But the hydrothermal vents host thriving communities of marine life - snails, worms and shrimp that have evolved to cope with very specific conditions. In some cases these creatures are extremely rare, which is why the prospect of deep sea mining is highly controversial. You can't say the same for the earthworms and dandelions harmed by digging a trench in the yard in New England.
- JoeAltmaier 9y ago
  We're largely unaware of the millions of extinct insects etc that humanity extinguished in our conquest of the 7 continents. Suffice it to say, all those that evolved on land for very specific conditions are long gone. Except for those we're bulldozing today without noticing.
tomalpha 9y ago
> I can't dig a shovel of dirt from my field without finding a plastic fragment This, in the wider environment, whether microbeads in fish or plastic bags in the ocean, is one of the greatest modern tragedies IMHO.
- JoeAltmaier 9y ago
  I disagree. I'm not sure its at all significant. Whether the fish has sand or plastic fragments in its gut may be immaterial. This issue has been fastened onto by well-meaning folks without much study. Perversely, the fact that many fish have micro beads in them is encouraging - they clearly are surviving and reproducing despite the beads (or we wouldn't be finding them in such large numbers).
  - specialist 9y ago
    So, not a big fan of the hippocratic oath (precautionary principle)? I really don’t know how to respond to denial, whatsboutism, selective incredulity. Mostly, I give up. But know that when obstructionists finally get a clue, I’m fresh out of goodwill, and won’t be helping. Good luck.
    - JoeAltmaier 9y ago
      Sure, be cautious. But about what? Which things? Talk about isms, the tendency of the popular press to latch onto big obvious things and say "What about microplastic beads?!" Its something folks can see and get behind. Never mind there's not much evidence its actually a problem. We have a limited fund of energy, emotional and productive. To spend it on microplastic beads may well be the right direction. But is surely takes attention away from things that ARE definitely a problem. I'm not some Pollyanna ignorant person that's deliberately denying science or whatever. Just the opposite.
      - specialist 9y ago
        "Never mind there's not much evidence its actually a problem." What measure of proof do you require, to convince you that it's a problem worthy of your attention?

cmsefton 9y ago

What I find most astonishing is the open admission that they are going to intentionally destroy thermal vents, which may be the origins of life on earth. The loss to science is incalculable, and the destruction of the life that lives around them is the equivalent of wiping out an entire ecosystem.