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Ask HN: Ok. I have the MVP. I have a small feedback. What is next?

54 points by pavelshtanko 9y ago

Hello HN people! I do have questions (tons of them btw) and I do think that it is the good place to ask. Got: 1. The idea 2. Two developers 3. The MVP (actually working prototype, to say mo I'm already using it for my own purposes together with my family) 4. A very small feedback (14 guys interested and waiting for the start of the project) after a few posts on the internet boards. 5. All the tech-related things like certificates, scaling, tests, ci\cd, etc (don't really think that it worths mentioning here, but why not...) 6. Vision (don't like this word) of how to scale and apply the idea to different markets and integrate with my current main project (or similar) where I'm working as a developer Want: 1. Run the prototype and test it in the live-mode. Problems: 1. This is the side project running in the parallel with the main job. So the time is the problem. 2. I do not have the experience of running the c-corp or something to legally start the stripe integration for payments. And I can't actually run the project without it. 3. The project already has the expenses related to the Google cloud and some of the others 3rd-party providers. Questions (I know nothing about the investments and startup stages so please forgive me the stupid questions): 1. Does the project on the right stage for searching for investments? 2. Do the investors willing to help me with the legal issues? 3. Do I need to look into startup accelerators? 4. What is the best\fast\safe option to run the project? 5. What are the good articles to read about the process of building and funding the startup\sideproject? p.s. I don't think that you guys like the advertisement so I didn't put the link to my weird landing page here. (ping me if we need it for the discussion)

BartBoch 9y ago
1. Do you need an investment? Is your strategy completely dependant on getting funded? You should always build a company with Bootstrapping in mind. If you can survive without external funding, then it will be much easier for you in the long run. Funding will help you to grow, rather than survive. 2. You can always join startup accelerator or hub, they will help you out, often for free. 3. Yes, sounds like this is the best option in your situation. 4. Can your MVP run on a free basis? If yes, then release a free version and build it from there. This will be the best way to test your concept. Edit your post and add a link, without that it is hard to suggest anything.
- pavelshtanko 9y ago
  1. I do need the support to implement the legalization part (I don't know how to run c-corp or something) 2. For free? What is the profit for them? 4. Suddenly not, I rely on 3rd party providers and they cost me some money. The problem is that I can't edit post right now. So here is the link: https://goandcall.me https://goandcall.me (I've got very bad communication and copywriting skills but I promise I will improve them). The main idea that you can get a link or widget for your website, email signature or get it per prospect via API. This link will help your customers call you without any plugin or additional software. Free for customers, paid for you. You can manage links and numbers (activate, deactivate, assign schedule).
  - neltnerb 9y ago
    1. You are definitely overestimating how hard this is. Look up contract CFO firms, and you should be able to get part-time support for logistics like that (as well as helping you get your books set up and do taxes). 2. Many are non-profits or have a mission that is unrelated to them making a profit. They often are funded by VC firms, companies who would like to provide services to companies in the accelerator once they have money (law firms, etc), and companies that want to raise their own credibility in the startup scene (3dsystems, or area-focused companies like GE maybe funding accelerators that work in batteries). Some also get government grants.
hartator 9y ago
Sure, it's okay to post your landing page here. Please do. MVP stands for "Minimum Viable Product". It implies some paying customers. Nothing wrong to use the word prototype here.
- pavelshtanko 9y ago
  I'm to shy about it (not the best quality), but anyway: https://goandcall.me https://goandcall.me Idea: the link or widget that will help your customers reach you to your own phone number without any additional plugins or tools. Manage the links\numbers, activate them or deactivate. Attach scheduler to them. Hide your own number behind the links.
  - bbri06 9y ago
    "Let your customers reach you out in a simple and reliable way" does not sound right. Try either, "reach you in a..." or "reach out to you in a..."
    - pavelshtanko 9y ago
      Amazing, thanks a lot will update it immediately
    - pavelshtanko 9y ago
      done
strife25 9y ago
> 1. Does the project on the right stage for searching for investments? Don't worry about investment - focus on getting your first paying customer. Build a business first, then get investment when you need it to grow. You'll also have more leverage in the terms if you have a viable business when talking with investors.
- pavelshtanko 9y ago
  I'm thinking more about the support from experienced investors. Not about the money, more about the sells strategy, legalization part, marketing. More about transferring of the experience than about the money.
thisisit 9y ago
One, it's your thread. So, it's fine if you post the link. Getting feedback is important. Second, get some Linkedin/Facebook/Google ads running. Get some more people to your site. IMO, one of the biggest problems is having a small audience for feedback. If your conversion rate is say 1% then you barely have 1 user. So, go big or go home. Third, I believe there will be tools out there to help with other stuff like c-corp etc.
- pavelshtanko 9y ago
  Thanks a lot for the feedback! I was thinking about the small amount of paid adds as well and I'm glad that you prove that it may work. Can you share some of the tools besides the stripe's atlas? If you are wondering the landing is https://goandcall.me https://goandcall.me. Idea is to let you create the link or widged to your own phone and let your customers or visitors call you without any plugins or additional software. Just from the browser. As well as give you the ability to manage links and numbners different ways (activate\deactive, schedule, etc.)
  - jacquesm 9y ago
    Like this? https://www.innovaphone.com/en/produkte-unified-communications/call-me-button.html https://www.innovaphone.com/en/produkte-unified-communicatio...
    - pavelshtanko 9y ago
      Close enough, we are the link to your own phone (physical one that you have in your pocket). So it is comfortable for you to run your own business from any place you are currently now without the need of sitting in front of the computer. Or just send the link to your parents and they will be able to call you whenever they need wihtout any additional tools. (btw you will recieve the phone call from the local number) We want to keep it as simple as possible.
  - sharemywin 9y ago
    https://www.sba.gov/blogs/selling-us-foreign-business-should-you-incorporate-your-business-here https://www.sba.gov/blogs/selling-us-foreign-business-should...
contingencies 9y ago
First of all, congratulations to you and your team on coming this far. 1. No. Investors will want to see product market fit, size of opportunity, growth potential. Without true and paying customers (people you don't know), this is too hard to claim, so even most angel investors will consider the current state too early. 2. An angel investor would be able to assist you with company registration, however you can also do it yourself through an agency. I would recommend pricing this out (both establishment and annual ongoing fees and charges) so you have an idea of what you're getting in to financially before taking the plunge. This will be part of your first financial forecast, which is going to be maintained going forward. 3. Accelerators are fronts for investment. They also want high growth potential businesses. Unless you can justify this, it may be hard to get accepted. Also, they usually demand full time commitment for the whole team in a certain physical location (ie. whole team has to move cities) and some traction with an MVP at a minimum. Unless you and your team are all willing to quit your jobs, they may not be right for you. However, they may provide the dangling carrot that maintains team motivation and gets you all to commit full time. Only you will know if it's right for your team. Frankly, it's a large risk. You would probably do well to maintain your income and operate the business part time initially. 4. Decide on ownership and investment structure. Commit to paying the C-Corp and related accounting/filing fees. Get it done through an agency. Try to sell the tool and get some real market validation. 5. You don't need articles. You need sales. In short: Register a company, listen to your real or potential customers, get some sales.
- jmngomes 9y ago
  >> "An angel investor would be able to assist you with company registration, however you can also do it yourself through an agency." Although this is true, I would seriously advise the founder to get his own (trustworthy) lawyer assist him through the process, as with everything related to incorporating the company (ownership and investment structure).
  - contingencies 9y ago
    More legal advice is always nice but it costs and may not add significant value. Registration tends to be straightforward and necessarily formalizes ownership structure to a significant extent. That said, lawyers may be useful for contracts. If the OP has concerns about registration costs, my advice would be to hold off lawyers at this stage and get a customer first.
sharemywin 9y ago
easy way: 1. register llc in home state. 2. goto local bank with registration paper take it to local bank to get a commercial bank account. 3. pay money later to fix problems if investors are interested.
- pavelshtanko 9y ago
  Not in the US... Thinking of stripe's atlas. But scared of some hidden things\taxes
  - dirktheman 9y ago
    Stripe Atlas might be too soon for you... Focus on getting some sales first. While Stripe Atlast is great (and cheap!) for what it is (setting up a US bank account and a Delaware C-Corp) do realize that you'll have to file taxes in the US from now on. If you use a payment provider (like Stripe, which is awesome!) you'll be able to charge people from the US just the same without going straight to tax hell. Sell, sell, sell. Worry about LLCs and US bank accounts and EIN numbers later. More: https://hackernoon.com/stripe-atlas-is-not-for-everyone-caveats-based-on-my-experience-2735a226df8a https://hackernoon.com/stripe-atlas-is-not-for-everyone-cave...
    - pavelshtanko 9y ago
      Looks like you are right, but how can I setup payment system without the EIN number? Stripe won't allow it
      - mikeokner 9y ago
        I would personally discourage you from incorporating as a Delaware C corp unless you absolutely have no other option. On top of the registered-agent fees, Delaware charges a minimum of about $700/year in taxes. For a company with no revenue, no liability, and no investors, it's extremely expensive and offers no benefit over any other corporate entity registered elsewhere. You're probably far better off filing for something like a Wyoming LLC[0] for about $150 initially and $75/year after that (if an LLC will work for you internationally). I'm not an accountant or attorney and I strongly suggest paying one for at least an hour of their time to get some professional advice.
adamqureshi 9y ago
The single necessary and sufficient condition for a business, says MIT’s Bill Aulet, is a paying customer. https://stripe.com/atlas https://stripe.com/atlas or use a paypal button. Adapt this mentality. No investor will ever give you money. Make sales. Learn. Adjust. Repeat. Good Lucky! ;-)
- pavelshtanko 9y ago
  I'm thinking more about support than money. I can run it for some time on my own for sure... But registering the company, talking about marketing, helping with sales strategy all these things.. I definitely need them more than money.
  - jmngomes 9y ago
    It'll be immensely easier to get a proper investor if you can generate enough sales to break even (i.e. to pay for your costs), because that's an important step to demonstrating viability and avoiding the "too early" argument. So, given what you already know, how many customers do you need to generate enough revenue to pay for costs, i.e. what slice of the market should you address? Define that segment of the market, e.g. "kindergarten teachers in London" and devise the tactics to get them on your "Buy now" screen, and then to get them to click the "Pay now" button. Sales strategy really depends on what space your business is in (especially B2B or B2C), but a basic first step could be something like "I'll create a Google Ads campaign for that target, measure how they respond to the landing page and integrate Intercom so I can discover/answer their questions when they reach the website". You'll learn new things about what customers think of your service - pricing, features, etc - that will help you define the next step. If you haven't received a payment, I'd focus on converting those 14 prospects into paying customers and learning why they have or haven't purchased. Then, if you're a B2C business, focus on increasing that number x10, i.e. get to 100 paying customers, then 1000, until you break even. This is when an investor, in my mind, will be useful: to accelerate growth, and for that you need some sort of growth beforehand (which will also be your main argument when negotiating an investment). When you are at this point, your premise will be "I'll use this money to hire a senior sales executive specializing in X to devise a proper sales strategy, and/or a senior marketing person to devise and run marketing campaigns").
jlebrech 9y ago
You might want to look for a partner that's more business oriented than an angel. Say come up with a value you're willing to start negotiations with an have the partner buy half (or less), then let that person deal with the business side of things.
antoniuschan99 9y ago
Like the others here have said and I will stress it as well: Nothing matters until you get sales. Paying customers gives you a more defined value proposition for your product, it also tells you what specific niche to serve. A suggestion for Got #6. A very important piece of advice I received when I was working on my product was, "It's better to have 10 people love your product than 1000 who like your product"
chkte 9y ago
Put some money on Google AdWords. Absolutely worth it. Check the conversion rate, do some A/B testing. You will know very soon whether your idea is worth pursuing or not.
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- grzm 9y ago
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pavelshtanko 9y ago
Can't get the customers without registering the company (stripe won't let me go live :) )
- yehosef 9y ago
  Did you look into Stripe Atlas? - they do all the work of setting up the company and bank for around $500.
  - pavelshtanko 9y ago
    I did look, but it looks like overkill for the initial start (I don't even know will someone buy the product or not).
    - masukomi 9y ago
      you have an MVP that sounds like you've actually honored the "M" part (as many fail to). You find it useful already. Do you honestly think you won't be able to get $500 worth of customers? If you really think that, then just stop. It's not worth your time, because $500 worth of customers is nothing. I'm assuming you're charging more than $1. If you can get more than $500 worth of customers then who cares? All businesses have costs. The question is, can you recoup them? Yes, you can incorporate yourself online for like $150, and about an hour with google will tell you which form of corporation is the best fit for you. Probably S-Corp I'd bet. C-Corp is probably overkill. BUT regardless of if you use that Stripe service or not, use their $500 barrier of entry as a guide for if it's worth continuing or not, because obviously it's enough to make you pause.
- jmngomes 9y ago
  Is it not viable using a personal Paypal account at this stage?
  - masukomi 9y ago
    starting a business with your finances managed by a company that can, and will, close accounts, and freeze funds for no reason at all is crazy. Especially when they frequently do it when someone suddenly starts making decent money, something all new startups hope to do. paypal is a dangerous idea to build a business on. Use a real bank that is legally forced to act in a responsible manner with regards to your funds.
    - jmngomes 9y ago
      No one is suggesting that the business should be built on Paypal. We're talking about a phase where the company is trying to land its first 14 customers or so.
- ajeet_dhaliwal 9y ago
  I don’t think that’s right. You can have the account in your name AKA sole proprietorship with a dba and then change it to the legal entity later (you may have to migrate to a new account, I can’t recall) but it’s not too hard. Anyway until you have paying customers I’d put off everything else.
arkades 9y ago
Some big firms will do this level of basic legal assistance for small start ups as part of their pro bono program. I believe Bingham McCutchen does, for one, though I don’t know how you apply.

neltnerb 9y ago

It sounds like an accelerator would be helpful for you, since they will be able to provide mentorship on marketing, sales, and legal advice if they're any good. But I would be hesitant to pay (much) to join one, there seem to be a lot of faux-accelerators out there preying on small companies. Ideal would be one that accepts people based on merits. Paying a few hundred dollars a month is reasonable, but giving up 10% of your company is not. That mentorship just isn't that expensive to provide to you. The founder of a startup must learn marketing and sales. This is unavoidable. You're the only one that deeply understands the product, and hopefully the market segment. If you don't understand the market segment, you must learn yourself. No marketing expert or sales firm will do as well as you yourself will. Once you've figured out how to sell it, which a mentor can help with but not substitute for, then you can train a sales person to "replicate" it. Once you have some example sales, you can define your "customer profile" which any sales person will need to have in order to know who to target in outbound sales to develop leads. Then the sales person would mostly be working on qualifying those leads to see if they truly are a good fit to sell to, and ultimately mostly just following up with them to move the process forward. Basically, assume that you are the lead sales person. That has to be your role now, there's no other option. Find the training you need, even if it's just an online crash course in sales. Don't hire a sales person until you feel confident you could clearly define not just that you need sales or vague ideas about who your target market is, but what characteristics of a customer to look for are. Sales isn't really all that hard. But it's also not easy, it requires a lot of willingness to hear "no" and not feel bad about it or move heaven and earth to get them to say yes. They won't. You need to be methodical and persistent, not take anything personally ever, and try to eliminate leads from your list of possibilities as fast as possible if they don't truly look like they'll turn into a sale. That's the only way to do it efficiently. (I am talking about enterprise sales, FYI. I don't know much about consumer sales.) EDIT: I noticed elsewhere that your customers appear to be companies. In that case, I believe my advice above applies well. You're likely to have a modest number of customers, who are hopefully paying a fairly high amount per customer. This is the mode in which enterprise sales work best, since it requires a bit heavier a touch (i.e. calling specific people at a potential customer to followup) than consumer sales.