7 ms·

How Toothpaste Became a Mainstream Product

105 points by jkuria 9y ago

Overtonwindow 9y ago
There's a better discussion of this with the author on Fresh Aire.
- dredmorbius 9y ago
  From 2012? https://www.npr.org/2012/03/05/147192599/habits-how-they-form-and-how-to-break-them https://www.npr.org/2012/03/05/147192599/habits-how-they-for...
rapfaria 9y ago
TL;DR: Cliff Notes of "The Power of Habit" by Charles Duhigg, with a clickbaity title.
- yesenadam 9y ago
  Ah thanks, yes it is, and extremely badly written. I couldn't stand the style for long.
- goldenkey 9y ago
  Too many copied and pasted sentences accidently repeated. Blatant hack job.
Untit1ed 9y ago
Interesting content, but it really needs a proof-read. There's entire repeated sentences that have evidently been copy-pasted during a rewrite and never deleted from their original location :/.
- jkuria 9y ago
  Thanks for the feedback. We've now hired an editor and the next book summaries should be higher quality.
throwaway5752 9y ago
"The last claim was outright untrue as the 'film' he alluded to in the advertisement is a naturally occurring membrane which cannot be removed by toothpaste" Is that true? I think the outermost layer of a tooth is just enamel. Open to being wrong (not a dentist) but I think it somewhat detracts from credibility (even though toothpaste is not actually the thrust of the article).
- moftz 9y ago
  There is plaque build up which the "fuzzy" feeling that you might have after waking up in the morning or just after not brushing for awhile. It's a biofilm but it's easily removed by brushing.
tritium 9y ago
The social mechanisms and agents operating business channels to broadly affect change in behavioral norms through obtuse, distributed influence and produce widely held beliefs with financial results for large companies and economic outcomes across an entire industry, doesn't interest me as much as other aspects surrounding the story of twentieth century medical and cosmetic products. Namely, what toothpaste is, how it works, and the prevailing clues offered as bellwethers for its effectiveness as a preventative treatment. This is the story of how to make something happen, whether it's useful and valuable to the individual or not. I'd rather see that story prefaced or intermingled with the details of a product's true utility, before hearing about the complicated and concerted effort to bring such a product to market (warts and all). I don't feel that such details are beyond the scope of a story of commercial success. Far from it. The mechanics of genuine utility are of paramount relevance, at least eye-to-eye with the behind-the-scenes schmoozings of success. Missing from the story are the odd details that reveal flouride's role in dental health, and its hazards and side effects as a medication. Also missing, is the detail regarding the industrial scale source of flouride's precursors, glossed over, even with the mention of at least one aluminum company, and hints implying a nod to the war effort, prior to the start of the second world war. It's also short on specific dates, skipping across broad periods, mentioning mostly decades as eras of activity or progress. Flouride and dentistry are weird topics with a lot of trivia, but this article only explains the activities of businessmen operating from advantageous positions, which for the most part, given the hindsight of the article lend an almost obvious and deterministic view of the outcome of their success. It reads like the musings of an amateur hunter relishing the idea of a canned hunt. Without including the low-level hard science of why toothpaste is effective, this story casts toothpaste in a role as seemingly empty as perhaps the Juicero juicer [0], or any number of other hollow products sold via infommercial or trumpeted alongside buzz words like Internet of Things. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juicero https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juicero
- Judgmentality 9y ago
  Reading that made me wish you'd written an article on the efficacy of toothpaste. So what do you think about its utility, and what are your thoughts on fluoride?
mgv11 9y ago
Just finished this book last week actually. Though it was interesting and helpful to identify what habits are really are and how to change.
gumby 9y ago
There are some unconvincing examples here! > The most famous and widespread case of a successful habit change is perhaps the 12-step Alcoholics Anonymous program It's a reach to call it a "successful habit change" given that actual study show a success rate of less than 3%. > We also know that we all have a limited supply of willpower. Actually it looks like that isn't the case after all. Etc.
- erikb 9y ago
  > > We also know that we all have a limited supply of willpower. > Actually it looks like that isn't the case after all. Huh? You mean you've read an article, or there are several independent studies showing what you say? I really doubt that this would be untrue because I can apply it to my life and it makes things better.
  - bsder 9y ago
    > Huh? You mean you've read an article, or there are several independent studies showing what you say? He is pointing to the fact that the studies that originated the "willpower pool" hypothesis have been increasingly discredited.
  - gumby 9y ago
    There have been several studies that have failed to support that now 20-year-old hypothesis: https://digest.bps.org.uk/2015/06/24/new-research-challenges-the-idea-that-willpower-is-a-limited-resource/ https://digest.bps.org.uk/2015/06/24/new-research-challenges... https://hbr.org/2016/11/have-we-been-thinking-about-willpower-the-wrong-way-for-30-years https://hbr.org/2016/11/have-we-been-thinking-about-willpowe...
  - jclos 9y ago
    Look at the criticism section of the Wikipedia page of ego depletion (the term for finite quantity of willpower): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_depletion#Reproducibility_controversy_and_conflicting_meta_analyses https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_depletion#Reproducibility_... Like most things the true is probably somewhere in between and the effect is probably there, just not as strong as the original publication implied. Sprinkle a bit of placebo effect on top of that and that could lead to people (e.g. you) using the concept of ego depletion with a lot of success.
violetchahcki 9y ago
Right now there are no effective hygiene products for nasal area. Something like a harmless mist that instantly drains all the mucus from the sinuses (along with all the bacterial/viral load that cause health problems and bad breath) would be real nice. Again, some sort of mouthwash that instantly dissolves tonsil stones would be even better :) But such items are currently absent from the roster of hygienic products. Safe products like these would make someone an overnight billionaire or make stocks of Johnson & Johnson / Colgate - Palmolive jump higher:)
- vanderZwan 9y ago
  > Something like a harmless mist that instantly drains all the mucus from the sinuses (along with all the bacterial/viral load that cause health problems and bad breath) would be real nice. This might sounds too low-tech (and can't be patented), but simple nasal irrigation with a lukewarm isotonic saline solution works pretty well for me in this department.
  - naravara 9y ago
    >This might sounds too low-tech (and can't be patented), but simple nasal irrigation with a lukewarm isotonic saline solution works pretty well for me in this department In terms of building habits and routines, I think the trouble with nasal irrigation is that it takes too much work to prep the water. I do it during allergy season, but only because my hay fever is bad enough that the relief is a big help. If you want people to make a habit out of it in the absence of having their sinuses assaulted by trees, it would be good if there was a way to have water for your neti pot as easily available as toothpaste is. You'd need a gizmo that can quickly and easily take an adequate quantity of water, sanitize it, bring it to temperature, and add the appropriate quantity of salt to make it isotonic without too much effort on the part of the user.
    - bradyd 9y ago
      Check out Arm & Hammer Simply Saline. It's basically exactly what you are looking for. The water is room temperature, but I have not found any issue with that.
tobyhinloopen 9y ago
thank you for reminding me I need to buy toothpaste

105 points by jkuria 9y ago

Overtonwindow 9y ago

There's a better discussion of this with the author on Fresh Aire.

dredmorbius 9y ago
From 2012? https://www.npr.org/2012/03/05/147192599/habits-how-they-form-and-how-to-break-them https://www.npr.org/2012/03/05/147192599/habits-how-they-for...

rapfaria 9y ago

TL;DR: Cliff Notes of "The Power of Habit" by Charles Duhigg, with a clickbaity title.

yesenadam 9y ago
Ah thanks, yes it is, and extremely badly written. I couldn't stand the style for long.
goldenkey 9y ago
Too many copied and pasted sentences accidently repeated. Blatant hack job.

Untit1ed 9y ago

Interesting content, but it really needs a proof-read. There's entire repeated sentences that have evidently been copy-pasted during a rewrite and never deleted from their original location :/.

jkuria 9y ago
Thanks for the feedback. We've now hired an editor and the next book summaries should be higher quality.

throwaway5752 9y ago

"The last claim was outright untrue as the 'film' he alluded to in the advertisement is a naturally occurring membrane which cannot be removed by toothpaste" Is that true? I think the outermost layer of a tooth is just enamel. Open to being wrong (not a dentist) but I think it somewhat detracts from credibility (even though toothpaste is not actually the thrust of the article).

moftz 9y ago
There is plaque build up which the "fuzzy" feeling that you might have after waking up in the morning or just after not brushing for awhile. It's a biofilm but it's easily removed by brushing.

tritium 9y ago

The social mechanisms and agents operating business channels to broadly affect change in behavioral norms through obtuse, distributed influence and produce widely held beliefs with financial results for large companies and economic outcomes across an entire industry, doesn't interest me as much as other aspects surrounding the story of twentieth century medical and cosmetic products. Namely, what toothpaste is, how it works, and the prevailing clues offered as bellwethers for its effectiveness as a preventative treatment. This is the story of how to make something happen, whether it's useful and valuable to the individual or not. I'd rather see that story prefaced or intermingled with the details of a product's true utility, before hearing about the complicated and concerted effort to bring such a product to market (warts and all). I don't feel that such details are beyond the scope of a story of commercial success. Far from it. The mechanics of genuine utility are of paramount relevance, at least eye-to-eye with the behind-the-scenes schmoozings of success. Missing from the story are the odd details that reveal flouride's role in dental health, and its hazards and side effects as a medication. Also missing, is the detail regarding the industrial scale source of flouride's precursors, glossed over, even with the mention of at least one aluminum company, and hints implying a nod to the war effort, prior to the start of the second world war. It's also short on specific dates, skipping across broad periods, mentioning mostly decades as eras of activity or progress. Flouride and dentistry are weird topics with a lot of trivia, but this article only explains the activities of businessmen operating from advantageous positions, which for the most part, given the hindsight of the article lend an almost obvious and deterministic view of the outcome of their success. It reads like the musings of an amateur hunter relishing the idea of a canned hunt. Without including the low-level hard science of why toothpaste is effective, this story casts toothpaste in a role as seemingly empty as perhaps the Juicero juicer [0], or any number of other hollow products sold via infommercial or trumpeted alongside buzz words like Internet of Things. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juicero https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juicero

Judgmentality 9y ago
Reading that made me wish you'd written an article on the efficacy of toothpaste. So what do you think about its utility, and what are your thoughts on fluoride?

mgv11 9y ago

Just finished this book last week actually. Though it was interesting and helpful to identify what habits are really are and how to change.

gumby 9y ago

There are some unconvincing examples here! > The most famous and widespread case of a successful habit change is perhaps the 12-step Alcoholics Anonymous program It's a reach to call it a "successful habit change" given that actual study show a success rate of less than 3%. > We also know that we all have a limited supply of willpower. Actually it looks like that isn't the case after all. Etc.

erikb 9y ago
> > We also know that we all have a limited supply of willpower. > Actually it looks like that isn't the case after all. Huh? You mean you've read an article, or there are several independent studies showing what you say? I really doubt that this would be untrue because I can apply it to my life and it makes things better.
- bsder 9y ago
  > Huh? You mean you've read an article, or there are several independent studies showing what you say? He is pointing to the fact that the studies that originated the "willpower pool" hypothesis have been increasingly discredited.
- gumby 9y ago
  There have been several studies that have failed to support that now 20-year-old hypothesis: https://digest.bps.org.uk/2015/06/24/new-research-challenges-the-idea-that-willpower-is-a-limited-resource/ https://digest.bps.org.uk/2015/06/24/new-research-challenges... https://hbr.org/2016/11/have-we-been-thinking-about-willpower-the-wrong-way-for-30-years https://hbr.org/2016/11/have-we-been-thinking-about-willpowe...
- jclos 9y ago
  Look at the criticism section of the Wikipedia page of ego depletion (the term for finite quantity of willpower): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_depletion#Reproducibility_controversy_and_conflicting_meta_analyses https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_depletion#Reproducibility_... Like most things the true is probably somewhere in between and the effect is probably there, just not as strong as the original publication implied. Sprinkle a bit of placebo effect on top of that and that could lead to people (e.g. you) using the concept of ego depletion with a lot of success.

violetchahcki 9y ago

Right now there are no effective hygiene products for nasal area. Something like a harmless mist that instantly drains all the mucus from the sinuses (along with all the bacterial/viral load that cause health problems and bad breath) would be real nice. Again, some sort of mouthwash that instantly dissolves tonsil stones would be even better :) But such items are currently absent from the roster of hygienic products. Safe products like these would make someone an overnight billionaire or make stocks of Johnson & Johnson / Colgate - Palmolive jump higher:)

vanderZwan 9y ago
> Something like a harmless mist that instantly drains all the mucus from the sinuses (along with all the bacterial/viral load that cause health problems and bad breath) would be real nice. This might sounds too low-tech (and can't be patented), but simple nasal irrigation with a lukewarm isotonic saline solution works pretty well for me in this department.
- naravara 9y ago
  >This might sounds too low-tech (and can't be patented), but simple nasal irrigation with a lukewarm isotonic saline solution works pretty well for me in this department In terms of building habits and routines, I think the trouble with nasal irrigation is that it takes too much work to prep the water. I do it during allergy season, but only because my hay fever is bad enough that the relief is a big help. If you want people to make a habit out of it in the absence of having their sinuses assaulted by trees, it would be good if there was a way to have water for your neti pot as easily available as toothpaste is. You'd need a gizmo that can quickly and easily take an adequate quantity of water, sanitize it, bring it to temperature, and add the appropriate quantity of salt to make it isotonic without too much effort on the part of the user.
  - bradyd 9y ago
    Check out Arm & Hammer Simply Saline. It's basically exactly what you are looking for. The water is room temperature, but I have not found any issue with that.

tobyhinloopen 9y ago

thank you for reminding me I need to buy toothpaste