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> Agile works for websites and mobile, THAT'S IT. From your experience. This is a kind of No True Scotsman. If agile is working on massive multi-team, multi-s

> Agile works for websites and mobile, THAT'S IT. From your experience. This is a kind of No True Scotsman. If agile is working on massive multi-team, multi-site, multi-timezone, multi-company projects, then apparently it ain't agile. My experience is different. I've seen it work and not work. Right now I'm seeing it work. It works well; the core of which is asking what's sucking and how we can fix it.

maxxxxx 9y ago
"the core of which is asking what's sucking and how we can fix it." This seems to be a taboo for a lot of managers. They'll do almost anything to avoid listening to their own people and fixing the problems they mention. Only outside consultants or management further up can be listened to but not the people they manage.
- jacques_chester 9y ago
  I think you're right.
oceanghost 9y ago
No, not just from my experience. Logically. The biggest risk in engineering is always the "dealbreaker." Some fundamental philosophical incongruity in the project. Usually, they take the form of a broken invariant. When I was an architect, it was my job to front run my team, management and plan for every conceivable scenario such that I would never have to utter the phrase, "That is not possible." You cannot plan a multi-year project in 2-week increments if I spoke metaphorically about websites / mobile apps-- what I meant was, you cannot design anything that really matters in weekly increments. Imagine trying to design the space shuttle two weeks at a time.
- jacques_chester 9y ago
  Again, you're creating a No True Scotsman. Cloud Foundry is a multi-million SLOC distributed system developed by dozens of teams over many years, one week at a time. Yet it has an architecture that evolves on a multi-year scale. Nothing in agile precludes architecture. What's precluded is ignoring change. I don't know what else to tell you. A counterexample to your universal claim exists. So it's not universal.
  - oceanghost 9y ago
    ...pivotal... :)
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]

maxxxxx 9y ago

"the core of which is asking what's sucking and how we can fix it." This seems to be a taboo for a lot of managers. They'll do almost anything to avoid listening to their own people and fixing the problems they mention. Only outside consultants or management further up can be listened to but not the people they manage.

jacques_chester 9y ago
I think you're right.

oceanghost 9y ago

No, not just from my experience. Logically. The biggest risk in engineering is always the "dealbreaker." Some fundamental philosophical incongruity in the project. Usually, they take the form of a broken invariant. When I was an architect, it was my job to front run my team, management and plan for every conceivable scenario such that I would never have to utter the phrase, "That is not possible." You cannot plan a multi-year project in 2-week increments if I spoke metaphorically about websites / mobile apps-- what I meant was, you cannot design anything that really matters in weekly increments. Imagine trying to design the space shuttle two weeks at a time.

jacques_chester 9y ago
Again, you're creating a No True Scotsman. Cloud Foundry is a multi-million SLOC distributed system developed by dozens of teams over many years, one week at a time. Yet it has an architecture that evolves on a multi-year scale. Nothing in agile precludes architecture. What's precluded is ignoring change. I don't know what else to tell you. A counterexample to your universal claim exists. So it's not universal.
- oceanghost 9y ago
  ...pivotal... :)
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]