4 ms·

Is it? I've never witnessed a Bay Area tech company state that their under representation of women and minorities is due to a different distribution of preferen

Is it? I've never witnessed a Bay Area tech company state that their under representation of women and minorities is due to a different distribution of preferences in these groups as compared to men and whites & Asians. On the contrary, in some tech companies doing this appears to be a fireable offense. Also, the point is not that less conservatives are in tech companies is the issue. I am under no illusion that probably no more than 10-15% of SV tech workers are going to be conservative. This is well within my personal estimate judging from people I met in university (during which they were more open about their political leanings) who went on to go into tech. It's that the conservatives that are (and even centrists and less-extreme liberals) feel the need to put on a facade while at work and that the political environment has become isolated to the extent that even mainstream conservative and even centrist views are considered abjectly racist or wrong. I'd consider an office with 5% conservatives where those conservatives feel empowered to share their opinion to be a better working environment, as compared to an office with 25% conservatives where all those conservatives put on a facade of liberalism out of fear of repercussion.

door3 9y ago
What does conservatism mean to you? When you say 'conservative', what beliefs are you describing?
- manfredo 9y ago
  These terms are ambiguous and have fluid meaning. But in general, anything on the Republican party platform, or supported by a substantial portion of Republicans or self-identified conservatives, is something I would consider part of mainstream conservatism. Quick examples include: * That affirmative action should be illegal or more heavily restricted. * That unlawful residents should be removed from the country, even if previous administrations chose not to enforce immigration law. * That welfare programs should be cut back. * That taxes should be reduced, even if they're reduced in such a way that the wealthy receive a greater tax cut than the non-wealthy. * That restrictions on firearms purchases and ownership should be kept permissive, and that restrictive local laws (e.g. California's) are unlawful. * That the US should be more restrictive in allowing foreigners to work in the country (e.g. raising the minimum salary for H1B workers) * That inequalities in education, employment, and achievement should not be presumed to be indications of bias. These are just quick examples. Personally, I advise anyone to conceal their political leanings if they agree with any of these statements in my current workplace if they wish to preserve their career prospects, and I think that's a shame. All of these are things that half to 30% of the voting population believes in, and are on the core platform of one of the two major US parties. Any workplace that claims to tolerate conservative views should tolerate these statements. "Conservative", "liberal", "centrist", etc. are by no means monolithic attributes. I think these labels are better described as broad generalizations of individual positions on issues. For example, I agree with 70-80% of "liberal" positions (maybe closer to 60% if you include San Francisco local issues, but there's arguments to be made that's more "far-left" vs. "left" than liberal vs. conservative). I still consider myself a liberal. That said, I still do censor myself on any non-anonymous forums for the remaining 20-30%.
  - tanilama 9y ago
    How is meritocracy conservative exactly? I worked in a big tech company in Bay Area, and it is empathized in my hiring training session heavily that we are not afraid to miss good people but we are afraid to end up with bad ones. Not agree with far-left opinion != Being conservative. A lot of my colleagues who happily brand themselves as liberal, all think unregulated illegal immigration will cause problem, I don't think there is any chance they will self identify as conservative. As an individual I might agree with some of the points, but disagree with the rest, like I all for more restrictive gun control and think it is due to an outdated law. It is indeed a problem itself to force people into two buckets and create a us-vs-the-world mentality.
    - manfredo 9y ago
      Interesting that you say that. "Meritocracy" has become a bit of a bad word in Bay Area tech companies. [1] And in case I didn't make this clear, that was just a quick dump of views that I think are generally considered conservative. Real life is much more nuanced than a list of bullet points. I fully agree that there are, for example, people who want tougher immigration laws but otherwise don't consider themselves conservative. [1] https://readwrite.com/2014/01/24/github-meritocracy-rug/ https://readwrite.com/2014/01/24/github-meritocracy-rug/ I realize this is just one example, but people on my own company's forums have caught flak for using the word "meritocracy".
      - kelukelugames 9y ago
        When you say conservatives support Meritocracy do you mean like how Ivanka and Jared got jobs with the White House? When people criticize the word "Meritocracy" they are not criticizing the concept but the usage.
        ameister14 9y ago
        >When people criticize the word "Meritocracy" they are not criticizing the concept but the usage. I don't agree - there is a subset of people that criticize meritocracy as a concept because they believe the idea of 'merit' is inherently racist and classist - if you start at a different level, it becomes more difficult for you to accrue 'merit' and so that needs to be balanced and taken into account. Some people believe this is much more important than hiring or promoting on 'merit'
s73v3r_ 9y ago
I don’t hear the tech companies saying it, but go into the comment section here on any story related to those things, and it will definitely come up as a very popular opinion. And not too long ago, hell, even currently in some places, it was considered a mainstream conservative view that gays should not have the same rights to marry. If a person holding that view were to work at, say, Grindr, I would absolutely expect them to receive push back on it.
- anon11082016 9y ago
  I didn't know we all worked at Grindr suddenly
- manfredo 9y ago
  This isn't contradicting anything I claimed. If anything, it's reinforcing it. Pointing out the disparity between the prevalence of conservative views (or at least, views that go against the majority in big Bay Area tech companies) on HN vs. in real life reinforces the notion that many tech workers are having to censor themselves and lie to their co-workers to fit in at work. Marc Andressen said something similar in an interview, I'm going to dig it up and post it here as an edit. Here it is, the relevant bits are around 28 minutes: https://a16z.com/2017/05/15/andreessen-primack-dc-tech-policy-summit-2017/ https://a16z.com/2017/05/15/andreessen-primack-dc-tech-polic...
  - s73v3r_ 9y ago
    My point is, if your political stance is that certain groups should be denied fundamental rights, for instance, then yes, you will feel awkward around those people, and with good reason.
    - manfredo 9y ago
      And who gets to decide what is and isn't a fundamental right? Remember, the majority of Californian voters voted to ban same sex marriage in 2008. That would make us (people who think same sex marriage should be a right) the minority. If your boss declared the right to firearms a fundamental right, should it empower him or her to fire anyone who donates to politicians that support gun control (in other words, almost all Democrats)?

door3 9y ago

What does conservatism mean to you? When you say 'conservative', what beliefs are you describing?

manfredo 9y ago
These terms are ambiguous and have fluid meaning. But in general, anything on the Republican party platform, or supported by a substantial portion of Republicans or self-identified conservatives, is something I would consider part of mainstream conservatism. Quick examples include: * That affirmative action should be illegal or more heavily restricted. * That unlawful residents should be removed from the country, even if previous administrations chose not to enforce immigration law. * That welfare programs should be cut back. * That taxes should be reduced, even if they're reduced in such a way that the wealthy receive a greater tax cut than the non-wealthy. * That restrictions on firearms purchases and ownership should be kept permissive, and that restrictive local laws (e.g. California's) are unlawful. * That the US should be more restrictive in allowing foreigners to work in the country (e.g. raising the minimum salary for H1B workers) * That inequalities in education, employment, and achievement should not be presumed to be indications of bias. These are just quick examples. Personally, I advise anyone to conceal their political leanings if they agree with any of these statements in my current workplace if they wish to preserve their career prospects, and I think that's a shame. All of these are things that half to 30% of the voting population believes in, and are on the core platform of one of the two major US parties. Any workplace that claims to tolerate conservative views should tolerate these statements. "Conservative", "liberal", "centrist", etc. are by no means monolithic attributes. I think these labels are better described as broad generalizations of individual positions on issues. For example, I agree with 70-80% of "liberal" positions (maybe closer to 60% if you include San Francisco local issues, but there's arguments to be made that's more "far-left" vs. "left" than liberal vs. conservative). I still consider myself a liberal. That said, I still do censor myself on any non-anonymous forums for the remaining 20-30%.
- tanilama 9y ago
  How is meritocracy conservative exactly? I worked in a big tech company in Bay Area, and it is empathized in my hiring training session heavily that we are not afraid to miss good people but we are afraid to end up with bad ones. Not agree with far-left opinion != Being conservative. A lot of my colleagues who happily brand themselves as liberal, all think unregulated illegal immigration will cause problem, I don't think there is any chance they will self identify as conservative. As an individual I might agree with some of the points, but disagree with the rest, like I all for more restrictive gun control and think it is due to an outdated law. It is indeed a problem itself to force people into two buckets and create a us-vs-the-world mentality.
  - manfredo 9y ago
    Interesting that you say that. "Meritocracy" has become a bit of a bad word in Bay Area tech companies. [1] And in case I didn't make this clear, that was just a quick dump of views that I think are generally considered conservative. Real life is much more nuanced than a list of bullet points. I fully agree that there are, for example, people who want tougher immigration laws but otherwise don't consider themselves conservative. [1] https://readwrite.com/2014/01/24/github-meritocracy-rug/ https://readwrite.com/2014/01/24/github-meritocracy-rug/ I realize this is just one example, but people on my own company's forums have caught flak for using the word "meritocracy".
    - kelukelugames 9y ago
      When you say conservatives support Meritocracy do you mean like how Ivanka and Jared got jobs with the White House? When people criticize the word "Meritocracy" they are not criticizing the concept but the usage.
      - ameister14 9y ago
        >When people criticize the word "Meritocracy" they are not criticizing the concept but the usage. I don't agree - there is a subset of people that criticize meritocracy as a concept because they believe the idea of 'merit' is inherently racist and classist - if you start at a different level, it becomes more difficult for you to accrue 'merit' and so that needs to be balanced and taken into account. Some people believe this is much more important than hiring or promoting on 'merit'

s73v3r_ 9y ago

I don’t hear the tech companies saying it, but go into the comment section here on any story related to those things, and it will definitely come up as a very popular opinion. And not too long ago, hell, even currently in some places, it was considered a mainstream conservative view that gays should not have the same rights to marry. If a person holding that view were to work at, say, Grindr, I would absolutely expect them to receive push back on it.

anon11082016 9y ago
I didn't know we all worked at Grindr suddenly
manfredo 9y ago
This isn't contradicting anything I claimed. If anything, it's reinforcing it. Pointing out the disparity between the prevalence of conservative views (or at least, views that go against the majority in big Bay Area tech companies) on HN vs. in real life reinforces the notion that many tech workers are having to censor themselves and lie to their co-workers to fit in at work. Marc Andressen said something similar in an interview, I'm going to dig it up and post it here as an edit. Here it is, the relevant bits are around 28 minutes: https://a16z.com/2017/05/15/andreessen-primack-dc-tech-policy-summit-2017/ https://a16z.com/2017/05/15/andreessen-primack-dc-tech-polic...
- s73v3r_ 9y ago
  My point is, if your political stance is that certain groups should be denied fundamental rights, for instance, then yes, you will feel awkward around those people, and with good reason.
  - manfredo 9y ago
    And who gets to decide what is and isn't a fundamental right? Remember, the majority of Californian voters voted to ban same sex marriage in 2008. That would make us (people who think same sex marriage should be a right) the minority. If your boss declared the right to firearms a fundamental right, should it empower him or her to fire anyone who donates to politicians that support gun control (in other words, almost all Democrats)?