4 ms·

Conservative propaganda has learned from the left how powerful victimology, feeling persecuted, is. White resentment is through the roof when I talk politics wi

by guelo 9y ago

Conservative propaganda has learned from the left how powerful victimology, feeling persecuted, is. White resentment is through the roof when I talk politics with a lot of my white friends.

mrtesthah 9y ago
White resentment becomes possible only when one ceases to care about facts. (Ex. http://www.mdcbowen.org/p2/rm/reports/cerd.pdf http://www.mdcbowen.org/p2/rm/reports/cerd.pdf)
- WaxProlix 9y ago
  This is part of what makes it so pernicious - they feel persecuted, but everyone else can see that they're firmly in control of everything. So it gets pointed out that they're not actually persecuted, which makes the White Moderate feel more persecuted and ignored, pushing them further right. Frustrating, but I don't know what you can do about it.
  - andybak 9y ago
    "They" is a very dangerous word in this concept because despite the genuine advantages of being white - there are many white people who are powerless and have had shitty lives. Inter-group vs intra-group differences. Someone from a minority might well have had an better life with more opportunities than someone from a privileged class. Comparing groups does not translate into comparing individuals (interestingly this is the same intellectual shortcut that leads to racism)
    - WaxProlix 9y ago
      > genuine advantages of being white The folks I'm mostly talking about don't actually believe in that, so obviously my "they" was too broad, indeed. > Someone from a minority might well have had an better life with more opportunities than someone from a privileged class. I don't think this has anything to do with what I'm talking about, except maybe as an intentional deflection? We're talking about white resentment as a phenomenon, not Bill the blue collar veteran who was tricked into plundering loot for Halliburton in 2004 or something. > Comparing groups does not translate into comparing individuals (interestingly this is the same intellectual shortcut that leads to racism) Discussing race as a phenomenon doesn't make you racist, and this talking point is often used by alt-righters to make some sort of "actually, anti-racists are the REAL racists" narrative. I don't buy it. edit: My views are failing in the marketplace of ideas! Feel free to leave a comment if you want to engage.
  - nasredin 9y ago
    In addition to the people, the party, the Republicans is also being pushed towards the far-right.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- ameister14 9y ago
  While some of it may be correct, that's a pretty terrible paper to use as evidence of anything, not only because it's incredibly biased but also because almost all of it is based on explorations of case studies. I have read a lot of these and contributed to some: it does this because it's pushing policy objectives. It's also from 17 years ago.
astura 9y ago
I find this new conservative victimhood mentality absolutely fascinating. I know someone who is a self described conservative who thinks he's being persecuted by society because of, of all things, having children. Not a ton of children, mind you, and not ones he can't afford, and not out of wedlock. Having children is literally the most socially acceptable thing you can do amongst almost all political ideologies. Its incredibly common and parents are held up on a pedestal just for existing. But he thinks the liberal elites are somehow out to get him for being a parent and he's a persecuted minority. He's said "liking being a parent is such an unpopular opinion." He has a million other benign things he thinks he's being persecuted for but the kids thing is just the most bizarre and totally detached from reality. It's like, you'd have to totally ignore reality to have this viewpoint... At the same time it seems like a really sad life. I wonder if they actually believe this shit or it's just a means to an end.
- peoplewindow 9y ago
  Why don't you ask him why he thinks that, instead of writing it off? I agree it seems odd to believe that anyone could be against having children. But the world is full of large groups of people who hold odd and unsubstantiated opinions. Perhaps he's met people who really do look down on him for having kids. Perhaps he's stumbled across a group of old fashioned Malthusians who think children = population growth = destroying the environment and he's extrapolated that belief out incorrectly onto a much wider group. To your wider point, conservatives are absolutely victimised in some parts of society. That's what the entire article in the WSJ is about. That's what happened to Damore. Note that Damore filed a complaint with the NLRB: they wrote a memo that put the word "scientific" in scare quotes, and stated that bringing up scientific studies of gender differences was sexual harassment. So literally attempting to argue conservative viewpoints by reference to scientific studies is now considered sexual harassment and the government will not defend it: if that isn't going to create a feeling of victimisation, what is?
  - tetromino_ 9y ago
    There do exist some activists fighting against "natal" policies; for example, these guys: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Alliance_for_Optional_Parenthood https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Alliance_for_Optional... However, such a position is very much unusual and marginal in the US or (IMHO) the Anglosphere in general. By contrast, I had encountered some rather aggressive childfree activists on the Russian-speaking segment of the Internet.

by guelo 9y ago

Conservative propaganda has learned from the left how powerful victimology, feeling persecuted, is. White resentment is through the roof when I talk politics with a lot of my white friends.

mrtesthah 9y ago

White resentment becomes possible only when one ceases to care about facts. (Ex. http://www.mdcbowen.org/p2/rm/reports/cerd.pdf http://www.mdcbowen.org/p2/rm/reports/cerd.pdf)

WaxProlix 9y ago
This is part of what makes it so pernicious - they feel persecuted, but everyone else can see that they're firmly in control of everything. So it gets pointed out that they're not actually persecuted, which makes the White Moderate feel more persecuted and ignored, pushing them further right. Frustrating, but I don't know what you can do about it.
- andybak 9y ago
  "They" is a very dangerous word in this concept because despite the genuine advantages of being white - there are many white people who are powerless and have had shitty lives. Inter-group vs intra-group differences. Someone from a minority might well have had an better life with more opportunities than someone from a privileged class. Comparing groups does not translate into comparing individuals (interestingly this is the same intellectual shortcut that leads to racism)
  - WaxProlix 9y ago
    > genuine advantages of being white The folks I'm mostly talking about don't actually believe in that, so obviously my "they" was too broad, indeed. > Someone from a minority might well have had an better life with more opportunities than someone from a privileged class. I don't think this has anything to do with what I'm talking about, except maybe as an intentional deflection? We're talking about white resentment as a phenomenon, not Bill the blue collar veteran who was tricked into plundering loot for Halliburton in 2004 or something. > Comparing groups does not translate into comparing individuals (interestingly this is the same intellectual shortcut that leads to racism) Discussing race as a phenomenon doesn't make you racist, and this talking point is often used by alt-righters to make some sort of "actually, anti-racists are the REAL racists" narrative. I don't buy it. edit: My views are failing in the marketplace of ideas! Feel free to leave a comment if you want to engage.
- nasredin 9y ago
  In addition to the people, the party, the Republicans is also being pushed towards the far-right.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
ameister14 9y ago
While some of it may be correct, that's a pretty terrible paper to use as evidence of anything, not only because it's incredibly biased but also because almost all of it is based on explorations of case studies. I have read a lot of these and contributed to some: it does this because it's pushing policy objectives. It's also from 17 years ago.

astura 9y ago

I find this new conservative victimhood mentality absolutely fascinating. I know someone who is a self described conservative who thinks he's being persecuted by society because of, of all things, having children. Not a ton of children, mind you, and not ones he can't afford, and not out of wedlock. Having children is literally the most socially acceptable thing you can do amongst almost all political ideologies. Its incredibly common and parents are held up on a pedestal just for existing. But he thinks the liberal elites are somehow out to get him for being a parent and he's a persecuted minority. He's said "liking being a parent is such an unpopular opinion." He has a million other benign things he thinks he's being persecuted for but the kids thing is just the most bizarre and totally detached from reality. It's like, you'd have to totally ignore reality to have this viewpoint... At the same time it seems like a really sad life. I wonder if they actually believe this shit or it's just a means to an end.

peoplewindow 9y ago
Why don't you ask him why he thinks that, instead of writing it off? I agree it seems odd to believe that anyone could be against having children. But the world is full of large groups of people who hold odd and unsubstantiated opinions. Perhaps he's met people who really do look down on him for having kids. Perhaps he's stumbled across a group of old fashioned Malthusians who think children = population growth = destroying the environment and he's extrapolated that belief out incorrectly onto a much wider group. To your wider point, conservatives are absolutely victimised in some parts of society. That's what the entire article in the WSJ is about. That's what happened to Damore. Note that Damore filed a complaint with the NLRB: they wrote a memo that put the word "scientific" in scare quotes, and stated that bringing up scientific studies of gender differences was sexual harassment. So literally attempting to argue conservative viewpoints by reference to scientific studies is now considered sexual harassment and the government will not defend it: if that isn't going to create a feeling of victimisation, what is?
- tetromino_ 9y ago
  There do exist some activists fighting against "natal" policies; for example, these guys: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Alliance_for_Optional_Parenthood https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Alliance_for_Optional... However, such a position is very much unusual and marginal in the US or (IMHO) the Anglosphere in general. By contrast, I had encountered some rather aggressive childfree activists on the Russian-speaking segment of the Internet.