4 ms·

> not about disrespect, unrightful criticism, and scrutiny in technical fields on the basis of sex. Well since these are claims you can undoubted produce data

> not about disrespect, unrightful criticism, and scrutiny in technical fields on the basis of sex. Well since these are claims you can undoubted produce data that all of these issues are significant across the entire field?

geofft 9y ago
Sure, give me a research lab and some funding. I don't know that there have been many rigorous studies across all of STEM that measure this effect and give an answer one way or another. For tech in particular, see the Kapor Center's report: https://www.kaporcenter.org/tech-leavers/ https://www.kaporcenter.org/tech-leavers/ (which, it should be noted, reports on people who have left tech: the percentages in that report should not be read as the fraction of people in tech who decide to leave).
- mpweiher 9y ago
  For studies like these, it actually helps to look at the data rather than just skim the headlines/talkimg points, which tend to cherry pick to support the narrative. For example, when "left due to unfair treatment" is unpacked by group, white women are the lowest percentage! (28% vs. 38% for white/asian men).
  - geofft 9y ago
    Yes, that's true. Again this is the percentage thing I mentioned—the study is not claiming that more white and Asian men leave because of unfair treatment than women, it's claiming that of those who leave, more white and Asian men report unfair treatment as a motivation than women do.
    - depressedpanda 9y ago
      So this study shows that unfair treatment is a less important reason for women leaving tech than it is for Asian and white men. Why, then, are other people commenting here claiming that bad treatment of women is the main reason they leave tech, and at alarming numbers, no less?
      - geofft 9y ago
        If the raw fraction of women leaving is much higher than it is for Asian and white men, then the net effect is that a higher percentage of women are leaving because of unfair treatment than men are. Also, it's certainly the case that unfair treatment is a problem worth solving regardless of gender. (I don't think the design of that particular study was equipped to answer the question of what the raw fraction is / whether the numbers are in fact alarming, so people who are making that claim are not making it solely on the basis of information in that study.)
        naasking 9y ago
        That site certainly seems to be though, given the bold quotes plastered everywhere.
    - mpweiher 9y ago
      Right, and it seems that those relative percentages are the relevant figures, which might also be why they were reported.

geofft 9y ago

Sure, give me a research lab and some funding. I don't know that there have been many rigorous studies across all of STEM that measure this effect and give an answer one way or another. For tech in particular, see the Kapor Center's report: https://www.kaporcenter.org/tech-leavers/ https://www.kaporcenter.org/tech-leavers/ (which, it should be noted, reports on people who have left tech: the percentages in that report should not be read as the fraction of people in tech who decide to leave).

mpweiher 9y ago
For studies like these, it actually helps to look at the data rather than just skim the headlines/talkimg points, which tend to cherry pick to support the narrative. For example, when "left due to unfair treatment" is unpacked by group, white women are the lowest percentage! (28% vs. 38% for white/asian men).
- geofft 9y ago
  Yes, that's true. Again this is the percentage thing I mentioned—the study is not claiming that more white and Asian men leave because of unfair treatment than women, it's claiming that of those who leave, more white and Asian men report unfair treatment as a motivation than women do.
  - depressedpanda 9y ago
    So this study shows that unfair treatment is a less important reason for women leaving tech than it is for Asian and white men. Why, then, are other people commenting here claiming that bad treatment of women is the main reason they leave tech, and at alarming numbers, no less?
    - geofft 9y ago
      If the raw fraction of women leaving is much higher than it is for Asian and white men, then the net effect is that a higher percentage of women are leaving because of unfair treatment than men are. Also, it's certainly the case that unfair treatment is a problem worth solving regardless of gender. (I don't think the design of that particular study was equipped to answer the question of what the raw fraction is / whether the numbers are in fact alarming, so people who are making that claim are not making it solely on the basis of information in that study.)
      - naasking 9y ago
        That site certainly seems to be though, given the bold quotes plastered everywhere.
  - mpweiher 9y ago
    Right, and it seems that those relative percentages are the relevant figures, which might also be why they were reported.