5 ms·

There's a lot of people, both here on HN and in our industry who roll their eyes when issues of diversity and inclusivity come up, but companies and spaces like

There's a lot of people, both here on HN and in our industry who roll their eyes when issues of diversity and inclusivity come up, but companies and spaces like WeWork are the result of not having those conversations. I spent ample time in these places during my "startups are amazing!" phase, it ultimately was disheartening. The people are kind, and they make some gestures towards D&I, but those are limited, and the end result are places like WeWork. The end result is a bland, upper class niceness. The beer is craft, the sandwiches are tasty, the countertops are marble and the bulbs are always Edison. But the ideas they generate, they're just... normal. They're not really strange or weird or delightful. Furthermore, it's hard to escape the notion that places like this consume more resources than they create. What's the cost of hundreds of well groomed people with impeccable design? I'm not sure, but I'd suspect their carbon footprint is through the roof. But the real cost is that our society has to bend to support them, and that society has fundamental inequities. I wouldn't expect any meaningful revolution to come out of a WeWork, not because they're not smart people, but because they're people for whom this society works well already, so there's no need for a revolution. What ideas do come out of these spaces? We've seen them already, they're ideas titled towards optimizing your life, because of course, your life is already about as well oiled as you can get. Fine for a small subset of people, but hardly world conquering.

telesilla 9y ago
>[WeWork] is for people for whom this society works well already Well said - and further to this, it creates homogeneous environments which leads to innovation only towards your own community. On this note, I've been advising my younger friends to do two degrees (or chase two desires) on completely different subjects towards the same goal: the most interesting people I know have more than one core interest.
mrits 9y ago
What kind of diversity do you see them lacking?
- tensor 9y ago
  Presumably anyone from a economic class below middle class American. That's quite a lot of people.
mlevental 9y ago
i think this is a very insightful comment. i'm one of those people that spend a lot of time discussing and arguing about diversity and inclusion (here and irl) and what i wish people understood intimately what you allude to here >but because they're people for whom this society works well already, so there's no need for a revolution. it's very hard to convince someone for whom a system is working that there's potentially something immoral about perpetuating that system. the feeling is that since they're not proximally personally culpable that it's not a moral failing to participate but this is true >But the real cost is that our society has to bend to support them capital and resources allocated for wework is capital and resources that could have been allocated else where if our cultural priorities were different and therefore it's to the detriment of "abnormal" peoples that wework exists and persists. i know i'm basically recapitulating everything you've said but (clearly) i think it merits emphasis. this prompts the question: how do you do it? i think i'd be interested to know how you became sympathetic or partial if you're not from a marginalized community yourself (and we can take that offline) but this is hopeful as well >But the ideas they generate, they're just... normal. They're not really strange or weird or delightful. normative practices by definition normalize status quo. if in 50 years you still want to be wearing plaid, drinking craft beer, and listening to lcd soundsystem then go ahead and continue to exult in wework et al but otherwise you should try to include people that look very much different from you.
- dictum 9y ago
  > if in 50 years you still want to be wearing plaid, drinking craft beer, and listening to lcd soundsystem At risk of playing armchair psychologist, this is something I notice in American debates on diversity: people seem to be looking for what's in it for them. What's the hidden music genre I can turn into a trend and profit greatly? Will this traditional African dress make me less like some backwards bumpkin? I don't share the objection to "cultural appropriation" (I like sharing and remixing of cultures). I know it's not an exclusively American phenomenon. But it seems that people are always selling something, and I'm out of money.
- thrav 9y ago
  My arrival at most of what you’re talking about here as been through listening to the philosophize this podcast series on Sartre, Camus, Heidegger, Simone De Beauvoir, and the Frankfurt School. Through my own twisted path of self-discovery, I think I’d pretty well stumbled into Nietsche’s concept of the child. Shedding most of society’s weight, but not turning from its value entirely and sinking into nihilism. Life is fun. Work literally feels like a game I’m playing each day. But my wife asked me what the meaning of my life was to be. She said it felt haphazard and accidental in ways, and seemed to lack a cohesive directive. She was thinking more in terms of career aspirations, but it was a good question more generally. I’ll spare you the explanation I gave her, but say that in a nutshell it was personal success with a desired socially positive impact. Probably fairly common. The episodes outlined above made me rethink the level of impact I am responsible for. Prior to them, I thought doing some good and as little harm as possible was enough, if not exceptional. Listening to them made me feel the weight of what needs to change, and the responsibility that I have to help bring about that change. It’s not a small undertaking, and I’m probably not even crawling yet, but it’s a game I’m excited about playing.
freshhawk 9y ago
It does seem set up to innovate in one area pretty well: the standardization/commodification of the tech worker. They'll find the combo of snacks, distractions, booze, socializing, workspace and ideology that results in the best tech worker: the most standardized, replaceable, productive and affordable to employ worker it is possible to produce. Because what exactly they are optimizing for when they "optimize your life" is a important thing to consider, and your employer is their customer - not you.
616c 9y ago
As someone who once lived in a WeWork for a bootcamp of sorts, and 1776 during the daytime for those weeks, and has spent 6 years abroad prior as an American working abroad, so well said. This really resonates with me. I feel general unease in such places because we are all so similar and I feel the same towards all of us from my private high school: let's pat ourselves on the back after mommy and daddy put us in socioeconomic padding to force us into the pit of success!

telesilla 9y ago

>[WeWork] is for people for whom this society works well already Well said - and further to this, it creates homogeneous environments which leads to innovation only towards your own community. On this note, I've been advising my younger friends to do two degrees (or chase two desires) on completely different subjects towards the same goal: the most interesting people I know have more than one core interest.

mrits 9y ago

What kind of diversity do you see them lacking?

tensor 9y ago
Presumably anyone from a economic class below middle class American. That's quite a lot of people.

mlevental 9y ago

i think this is a very insightful comment. i'm one of those people that spend a lot of time discussing and arguing about diversity and inclusion (here and irl) and what i wish people understood intimately what you allude to here >but because they're people for whom this society works well already, so there's no need for a revolution. it's very hard to convince someone for whom a system is working that there's potentially something immoral about perpetuating that system. the feeling is that since they're not proximally personally culpable that it's not a moral failing to participate but this is true >But the real cost is that our society has to bend to support them capital and resources allocated for wework is capital and resources that could have been allocated else where if our cultural priorities were different and therefore it's to the detriment of "abnormal" peoples that wework exists and persists. i know i'm basically recapitulating everything you've said but (clearly) i think it merits emphasis. this prompts the question: how do you do it? i think i'd be interested to know how you became sympathetic or partial if you're not from a marginalized community yourself (and we can take that offline) but this is hopeful as well >But the ideas they generate, they're just... normal. They're not really strange or weird or delightful. normative practices by definition normalize status quo. if in 50 years you still want to be wearing plaid, drinking craft beer, and listening to lcd soundsystem then go ahead and continue to exult in wework et al but otherwise you should try to include people that look very much different from you.

dictum 9y ago
> if in 50 years you still want to be wearing plaid, drinking craft beer, and listening to lcd soundsystem At risk of playing armchair psychologist, this is something I notice in American debates on diversity: people seem to be looking for what's in it for them. What's the hidden music genre I can turn into a trend and profit greatly? Will this traditional African dress make me less like some backwards bumpkin? I don't share the objection to "cultural appropriation" (I like sharing and remixing of cultures). I know it's not an exclusively American phenomenon. But it seems that people are always selling something, and I'm out of money.
thrav 9y ago
My arrival at most of what you’re talking about here as been through listening to the philosophize this podcast series on Sartre, Camus, Heidegger, Simone De Beauvoir, and the Frankfurt School. Through my own twisted path of self-discovery, I think I’d pretty well stumbled into Nietsche’s concept of the child. Shedding most of society’s weight, but not turning from its value entirely and sinking into nihilism. Life is fun. Work literally feels like a game I’m playing each day. But my wife asked me what the meaning of my life was to be. She said it felt haphazard and accidental in ways, and seemed to lack a cohesive directive. She was thinking more in terms of career aspirations, but it was a good question more generally. I’ll spare you the explanation I gave her, but say that in a nutshell it was personal success with a desired socially positive impact. Probably fairly common. The episodes outlined above made me rethink the level of impact I am responsible for. Prior to them, I thought doing some good and as little harm as possible was enough, if not exceptional. Listening to them made me feel the weight of what needs to change, and the responsibility that I have to help bring about that change. It’s not a small undertaking, and I’m probably not even crawling yet, but it’s a game I’m excited about playing.

freshhawk 9y ago

It does seem set up to innovate in one area pretty well: the standardization/commodification of the tech worker. They'll find the combo of snacks, distractions, booze, socializing, workspace and ideology that results in the best tech worker: the most standardized, replaceable, productive and affordable to employ worker it is possible to produce. Because what exactly they are optimizing for when they "optimize your life" is a important thing to consider, and your employer is their customer - not you.

616c 9y ago

As someone who once lived in a WeWork for a bootcamp of sorts, and 1776 during the daytime for those weeks, and has spent 6 years abroad prior as an American working abroad, so well said. This really resonates with me. I feel general unease in such places because we are all so similar and I feel the same towards all of us from my private high school: let's pat ourselves on the back after mommy and daddy put us in socioeconomic padding to force us into the pit of success!