7 ms·

See, and I left NYC for Nashville in 2015, and I’m moving back to NYC next week. Nashville itself is pretty purple, but the ideology of the south is just as hom

See, and I left NYC for Nashville in 2015, and I’m moving back to NYC next week. Nashville itself is pretty purple, but the ideology of the south is just as homogeneous as SF, and I find it much, much more offensive (Roy Moore). There is not a (net) mass exodus from the Bay Area, hence the ridiculous prices. I moved to SF in 2006 and there were always people claiming it was on the verge of collapse because everyone was fed up with the high prices and crowding and was fleeing. Funny to see that nothing has changed. “No one goes to that bar anymore, it’s too crowded!”

Barrin92 9y ago
>but the ideology of the south is just as homogeneous as SF this is an interesting asymmetry I've noticed too. There are countless of places where salt of the earth Americana is the de facto monoculture. If I'd go there and try to create a liberal-hippie space for myself they'd probably flip me the finger and tell me that's not the local way of life, and somehow everybody seems to agree that this is perfectly fine. Yet when people in the valley or in a big city share a common culture they somehow have to defend themselves and painstakingly carve out a space for Peter Thiel et al. Why is that? If he doesn't like California's culture Thiel can move, end of story. Why do we have to treat him like a wounded deer?
- muninn_ 9y ago
  Well, because they want to have their cake and eat it too. "Everybody has a voice, we're accepting of all cultures, everybody is welcome" etc.. until they aren't. And believe it or not, people in the south have to (from their point of view) put up with "the liberals" too - similar to people in SF or wherever. Frankly, what is interesting here is that instead of the United States becoming more culturally similar with the advent of planes, mobile phones, and what have you it would appear, at least on the surface, that we're becoming more different. I live in the Midwest and when I hear somebody from Vancouver saying that explaining something to someone automatically is "mansplaining" and "placing an emotional burden" on that person I find that just as idiotic and incompatible with my way of life as some bible-thumping anti-climate change person from Mississippi. Now, both of these are of course generalizations, but the most pervasive noise, if you will, is this instead of the most likely interaction I would have with most people which is just a hey how are you, thanks, yes I like XYZ as well. What we need to do is police the most radical people if we want the United States to be a united country. If we'd rather break it up or something then that's a different story.
- saget 9y ago
  They key difference between Nashville and SV is Nashville doesn't claim to be anything but what's it is. SV culture claims to be inclusive and value diversity of thought. However, plenty of people experience exactly the opposite of this and that makes people feel lied to. Eventually the true SV culture will become more understood but until then I can understand people's frustrations
  - heurist 9y ago
    My perspective as someone not living in California: I imagine that if there is increasing pushback against conservative values it is because the liberal ideology has been suppressed across most of the country and more pressure is being released in the few places where it is still politically preferable. If democrats sweep in the next few years (I am not so sure that will happen) then I also imagine the atmosphere in SV will cool down a bit. However, the mix of capital and somewhat radical liberal politics increase the odds of strange outcomes. The real problem is increasing polarization of the Congress since Gingrich. We are going to keep flipping back and forth between Republican domination and Democrat domination rather than slight right majority and slight left majority with great debates and comprises until some key issues with the electoral process and congressional procedure are fixed. I think the end result is an overhaul and optimization of government by sensible, human-oriented technologists but that is a few decades and several bitcoin bubbles away.
  - mrgordon 9y ago
    You can support diversity of thought and still be against billionaires who shut down media outlets and make additional billions off government surveillance and pervasive tracking of individuals (read: minorities)
    - filoleg 9y ago
      How about billionaires who rightfully sue publications that publicly reveal their sexual identity (without permission) in the context that can put the person's life in danger (Thiel visiting Saudi Arabia at the time)? What about publications being sued for publicly releasing private sex tapes of people without their permission and refusing to take them down at the request?
- BenSahar 9y ago
  I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that people just don't care enough about those places. No one cares about Huntsville, AL and most high-profile people would not reside there, so no one hears about any of this bubble behavior from the other side. The most important cities (culturally and economically) are, at least, left-leaning. So, you'll only hear about conservatives being rejected by the "liberals" in {city}. I grew up in a conservative town. Personal experience says the bubble on that side is arguably worse and more violent. Being openly gay or not-white or not-Christian (or accepting of those things) in my hometown was a good way to end up harassed and possibly assaulted on a regular basis.
  - alexqgb 9y ago
    The most important cities (culturally and economically) are, at least, left-leaning. That's not a coincidence. It's a direct product of cosmopolitanism. The cities that represent it most clearly are its capitals. Like any working system, it has rules. If you want the benefits, you need to play be the rules. If you don't, you're free to leave. Goodness knows your apartment won't go unfilled for long.
  - ryanwaggoner 9y ago
    Agreed. It’s bizarre to see this argument from people in places that have historically (and even currently) been epicenters of open hostility, harassment, and violence against “the other”, that the real injustice in our society is that too many people in liberal enclaves have disdain for conservative values.
    - stevenwoo 9y ago
      It may be bizarre but it's now a standard tactic - to claim victimhood in order to justify all manner of behavior, ala Fox News and the supposed war on Christmas to support the viewpoint that Christians are under siege in the USA, or that being outed if one wants to discriminate based on gender/sexuality (because of one's religious beliefs like that county clerk who refused to recognize same sex marriage) is unfairly targeting the religious.
  - Fins 9y ago
nodesocket 9y ago
Nashville as you know is actually pretty liberal, but the biggest difference is that people here live their lives, are friendly to others, and that southern charm is a real thing. People in San Francisco are always so outraged and angry (mainly since Trump took office) and the media constantly feeds them things to be outraged about that they are perpetually angry. People in Nashville for the most part don't let politics engulf and polarize them (I'd even say radicalize some) like the bay area.
- chillwaves 9y ago
  The media "feeds" us stuff to be outraged about? You mean factually reporting the news? There is real and severe damage that is happening to our country and our standing in the world. The regressive politics will have consequences. Even if you are a fan of Trump's policies, the White House is chaos, we essentially do not have a president. Imagine a real crisis hitting, and what this White House would do. It's incredible how insulting portions are at the population that they think the very real harm (this is not normal) is just some kind of media sensation. I think you are confusing the real current administration with a season of the apprentice that Trump hosted.
  - nodesocket 9y ago
    The fact that you can't see that it's in the media's best interest (manily to stay in business) to push outrage and sensational headlines and enable constant outrage is surprising. Facebook also further reinforces the outrage (on both sides) again for huge profits. Outrage sells, and business is a booming.
    - evgen 9y ago
      Maybe they are just not oblivious to the fact that there is a lot to be outraged about? Sometimes the outrage is not manufactured but simply a response to lies and criminal behavior in the halls of power.
    - ordinaryradical 9y ago
      You're making it zero sum but it's not. It's possible to have a media that profits off outrage but to simultaneously have outrageous things happening to our the most important institutions. The media did not create deported children, paid off porn stars, and collusion with foreign governments. So let's not pretend this is on them entirely.

Barrin92 9y ago

>but the ideology of the south is just as homogeneous as SF this is an interesting asymmetry I've noticed too. There are countless of places where salt of the earth Americana is the de facto monoculture. If I'd go there and try to create a liberal-hippie space for myself they'd probably flip me the finger and tell me that's not the local way of life, and somehow everybody seems to agree that this is perfectly fine. Yet when people in the valley or in a big city share a common culture they somehow have to defend themselves and painstakingly carve out a space for Peter Thiel et al. Why is that? If he doesn't like California's culture Thiel can move, end of story. Why do we have to treat him like a wounded deer?

muninn_ 9y ago
Well, because they want to have their cake and eat it too. "Everybody has a voice, we're accepting of all cultures, everybody is welcome" etc.. until they aren't. And believe it or not, people in the south have to (from their point of view) put up with "the liberals" too - similar to people in SF or wherever. Frankly, what is interesting here is that instead of the United States becoming more culturally similar with the advent of planes, mobile phones, and what have you it would appear, at least on the surface, that we're becoming more different. I live in the Midwest and when I hear somebody from Vancouver saying that explaining something to someone automatically is "mansplaining" and "placing an emotional burden" on that person I find that just as idiotic and incompatible with my way of life as some bible-thumping anti-climate change person from Mississippi. Now, both of these are of course generalizations, but the most pervasive noise, if you will, is this instead of the most likely interaction I would have with most people which is just a hey how are you, thanks, yes I like XYZ as well. What we need to do is police the most radical people if we want the United States to be a united country. If we'd rather break it up or something then that's a different story.
saget 9y ago
They key difference between Nashville and SV is Nashville doesn't claim to be anything but what's it is. SV culture claims to be inclusive and value diversity of thought. However, plenty of people experience exactly the opposite of this and that makes people feel lied to. Eventually the true SV culture will become more understood but until then I can understand people's frustrations
- heurist 9y ago
  My perspective as someone not living in California: I imagine that if there is increasing pushback against conservative values it is because the liberal ideology has been suppressed across most of the country and more pressure is being released in the few places where it is still politically preferable. If democrats sweep in the next few years (I am not so sure that will happen) then I also imagine the atmosphere in SV will cool down a bit. However, the mix of capital and somewhat radical liberal politics increase the odds of strange outcomes. The real problem is increasing polarization of the Congress since Gingrich. We are going to keep flipping back and forth between Republican domination and Democrat domination rather than slight right majority and slight left majority with great debates and comprises until some key issues with the electoral process and congressional procedure are fixed. I think the end result is an overhaul and optimization of government by sensible, human-oriented technologists but that is a few decades and several bitcoin bubbles away.
- mrgordon 9y ago
  You can support diversity of thought and still be against billionaires who shut down media outlets and make additional billions off government surveillance and pervasive tracking of individuals (read: minorities)
  - filoleg 9y ago
    How about billionaires who rightfully sue publications that publicly reveal their sexual identity (without permission) in the context that can put the person's life in danger (Thiel visiting Saudi Arabia at the time)? What about publications being sued for publicly releasing private sex tapes of people without their permission and refusing to take them down at the request?
BenSahar 9y ago
I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that people just don't care enough about those places. No one cares about Huntsville, AL and most high-profile people would not reside there, so no one hears about any of this bubble behavior from the other side. The most important cities (culturally and economically) are, at least, left-leaning. So, you'll only hear about conservatives being rejected by the "liberals" in {city}. I grew up in a conservative town. Personal experience says the bubble on that side is arguably worse and more violent. Being openly gay or not-white or not-Christian (or accepting of those things) in my hometown was a good way to end up harassed and possibly assaulted on a regular basis.
- alexqgb 9y ago
  The most important cities (culturally and economically) are, at least, left-leaning. That's not a coincidence. It's a direct product of cosmopolitanism. The cities that represent it most clearly are its capitals. Like any working system, it has rules. If you want the benefits, you need to play be the rules. If you don't, you're free to leave. Goodness knows your apartment won't go unfilled for long.
- ryanwaggoner 9y ago
  Agreed. It’s bizarre to see this argument from people in places that have historically (and even currently) been epicenters of open hostility, harassment, and violence against “the other”, that the real injustice in our society is that too many people in liberal enclaves have disdain for conservative values.
  - stevenwoo 9y ago
    It may be bizarre but it's now a standard tactic - to claim victimhood in order to justify all manner of behavior, ala Fox News and the supposed war on Christmas to support the viewpoint that Christians are under siege in the USA, or that being outed if one wants to discriminate based on gender/sexuality (because of one's religious beliefs like that county clerk who refused to recognize same sex marriage) is unfairly targeting the religious.
- Fins 9y ago

nodesocket 9y ago

Nashville as you know is actually pretty liberal, but the biggest difference is that people here live their lives, are friendly to others, and that southern charm is a real thing. People in San Francisco are always so outraged and angry (mainly since Trump took office) and the media constantly feeds them things to be outraged about that they are perpetually angry. People in Nashville for the most part don't let politics engulf and polarize them (I'd even say radicalize some) like the bay area.

chillwaves 9y ago
The media "feeds" us stuff to be outraged about? You mean factually reporting the news? There is real and severe damage that is happening to our country and our standing in the world. The regressive politics will have consequences. Even if you are a fan of Trump's policies, the White House is chaos, we essentially do not have a president. Imagine a real crisis hitting, and what this White House would do. It's incredible how insulting portions are at the population that they think the very real harm (this is not normal) is just some kind of media sensation. I think you are confusing the real current administration with a season of the apprentice that Trump hosted.
- nodesocket 9y ago
  The fact that you can't see that it's in the media's best interest (manily to stay in business) to push outrage and sensational headlines and enable constant outrage is surprising. Facebook also further reinforces the outrage (on both sides) again for huge profits. Outrage sells, and business is a booming.
  - evgen 9y ago
    Maybe they are just not oblivious to the fact that there is a lot to be outraged about? Sometimes the outrage is not manufactured but simply a response to lies and criminal behavior in the halls of power.
  - ordinaryradical 9y ago
    You're making it zero sum but it's not. It's possible to have a media that profits off outrage but to simultaneously have outrageous things happening to our the most important institutions. The media did not create deported children, paid off porn stars, and collusion with foreign governments. So let's not pretend this is on them entirely.