4 ms·

"openly supporting" the winning presidential candidate isn't "absurd".

by superquest 9y ago

dabbledash 9y ago
Well, normally it isn’t.
breakyerself 9y ago
Normally I'd agree with you, but Trump is a special case.
- catdograbbit 9y ago
  No, he isn't. Democrats said the same thing about Bush, and they're saying the same thing about Pence. Anybody with an R next to their name would get the same backlash if they were president.
  - ryanwaggoner 9y ago
    I can’t speak for everyone, but this isn’t true at all for me. I have disagreed with large chunks of the policies of every president in my lifetime, and voted for presidents of both parties. I’ve never doubted that any of them loved this country and took their oath of office seriously. I have zero faith that our current president cares about anything beyond himself and his image. Zero. And I’m not alone. A shocking number of conservative writers and thinkers believe Trump represents a fundamental threat to democracy. Behind closed doors, even many of his ardent public supporters have no respect or faith in him.
  - breakyerself 9y ago
    I didn't agree with Bush's economic policy, but I didn't think he was a particularly dangerous politician and I generally supported him in the years after 9/11. Then we invaded Iraq based on false pretenses and with no plan for what to do in the days following the fall of the government. It was deceitful, disgusting and incompetent and a waste of lives and resources. So I decided Bush is a POS. It wasn't a predetermined partisan opinion. It was based on how things actually unfolded. I still think that in terms of damage done Nixon was the worst we've had and Bush comes in second. Trump is dangerous in my opinion, but nothing so far comes close to what Bush did. It's strange that you make dislike of Bush sound unreasonable. It's perfectly reasonable.
Myrmornis 9y ago
Have you not heard Trump speak?
tensor 9y ago
It is when it implies openly supporting racism and sexism, which is why the reaction is rightly extreme.
- darkmarmot 9y ago
  And possibly treason...
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - chillwaves 9y ago
    Not to mention money laundering. Look, the charges against Trump can be argued, what cannot be argued is the attack by Russia against our country and Trump has refused to say one single bad word about Russia, while simultaneously having a public record of praising Putin and getting financed by Russian oligarchs. This is a matter of public record and fact that is beyond dispute. Lastly, both houses of congress passed additional sanctions against Russian with super majorities, beyond veto proof and Trump refuses to enact them. We are living in a constitutional crisis and for some reason every move Trump makes seems to benefit Russia. This is not normal. This is not OK.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
- sho 9y ago
  You need to zoom way the hell out, or you will miss the forest for the trees. Whether or not Trump is personally racist or sexist or whatever is basically immaterial. The very fact of his election, and his continuing popularity despite events, is direct manifestation of deep-seated cultural problems in the USA. Simply dismissing the concerns of tens of millions of americans as "racist and sexist" is not helpful and in fact perpetuates the problem. I am not a Trump supporter, or a Thiel supporter, but it's not self-evidently bad that a person with some means chose to work with the guy in charge to try to make a difference. This kind of lazy dismissal is part of the problem.
justAnotherNET 9y ago
It’s a shame this even has to be said here.
sigmar 9y ago
While I'm not sure I'd use the word "absurd," arguing that "he won, so it couldn't be absurd to support him" doesn't make sense. Lots of demagogues win elections. Winning an election doesn't automatically make you ethical or competent.
- shaftoe 9y ago
  No, but it certainly makes you mainstream.
  - evgen 9y ago
    Agreeing with 46% of the population is mainstream? Okay...
    - nl 9y ago
      Sure it is. No one claims driving a Honda Accord isn’t a mainstream choice just because they aren’t the number one selling car.
  - alexqgb 9y ago
    Not if the election wasn't won with a majority.
    - PeterisP 9y ago
      Sure it is, if there's a 30%/70% split of viewpoints then the 30% viewpoint is a mainstream viewpoint as well, not some weird niche - it's also considered normal and conventional (though less popular than the 70% one), shared by a significant part of the people, known / acknowledged by almost everyone including the opponents.
gameswithgo 9y ago
I think it is.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
wz1000 9y ago
Supporting any US President of the last century or so is morally dubious(if you consider mass murder and toppling democratic regimes morally dubious). Like Chomsky likes to say, if US Presidents were held to the standards of the Nuremberg principles, they would all be executed. In that regard, Trump has so far done less harm than most recent Presidents. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BXtgq0Nhsc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BXtgq0Nhsc
askafriend 9y ago
Yes it is. When you support Trump, you support his vile brand of leadership. The majority in this the country do not support this man or his ideas. They simply don't. The base that supported him and made this presidency possible is collapsing by all reported metrics (as in they are literally dying off, and younger people neither support Trump's ideas nor are they as religious). So while Trump's base may have squeezed out a win last time, their chances of a repeat decrease significantly as time goes on. Time is not on their side, and I suspect History is not on their side either.
- refurb 9y ago
  Let me guess, you don't know any Trump supporters?
  - dang 9y ago
    Please don't post unsubstantive swipes in discussions here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - askafriend 9y ago
    I've lived in the east coast, the west coast, the midwest, and the south all for extended periods in my life. I've lived in so many states in this country that I know intimately the diverse viewpoints and diverse culture that exists across America.
- huangbong 9y ago
  “The majority of the country does not support this man or his ideas”, says the liberal SF tech worker from the comfort of his/her Google office where all of his/her co-workers also blindly agree (except for Paul from Minneapolis, who secretly voted for and supports Trump, who would probably get fired by HR due to “poor performance” after coming out about it)
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
makewavesnotwar 9y ago
Sure it is in the way Thiel did it. It was absurd for him to go on national television to make statements with 0 impact. Trump didn't win most places in the country Thiel might want to live. Trump lost on the entire west coast, Colorado and NY. He alienated himself and for what? He couldn't even help Trump win CA.

"openly supporting" the winning presidential candidate isn't "absurd".

dabbledash 9y ago

Well, normally it isn’t.

breakyerself 9y ago

Normally I'd agree with you, but Trump is a special case.

catdograbbit 9y ago
No, he isn't. Democrats said the same thing about Bush, and they're saying the same thing about Pence. Anybody with an R next to their name would get the same backlash if they were president.
- ryanwaggoner 9y ago
  I can’t speak for everyone, but this isn’t true at all for me. I have disagreed with large chunks of the policies of every president in my lifetime, and voted for presidents of both parties. I’ve never doubted that any of them loved this country and took their oath of office seriously. I have zero faith that our current president cares about anything beyond himself and his image. Zero. And I’m not alone. A shocking number of conservative writers and thinkers believe Trump represents a fundamental threat to democracy. Behind closed doors, even many of his ardent public supporters have no respect or faith in him.
- breakyerself 9y ago
  I didn't agree with Bush's economic policy, but I didn't think he was a particularly dangerous politician and I generally supported him in the years after 9/11. Then we invaded Iraq based on false pretenses and with no plan for what to do in the days following the fall of the government. It was deceitful, disgusting and incompetent and a waste of lives and resources. So I decided Bush is a POS. It wasn't a predetermined partisan opinion. It was based on how things actually unfolded. I still think that in terms of damage done Nixon was the worst we've had and Bush comes in second. Trump is dangerous in my opinion, but nothing so far comes close to what Bush did. It's strange that you make dislike of Bush sound unreasonable. It's perfectly reasonable.

Myrmornis 9y ago

Have you not heard Trump speak?

tensor 9y ago

It is when it implies openly supporting racism and sexism, which is why the reaction is rightly extreme.

darkmarmot 9y ago
And possibly treason...
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- chillwaves 9y ago
  Not to mention money laundering. Look, the charges against Trump can be argued, what cannot be argued is the attack by Russia against our country and Trump has refused to say one single bad word about Russia, while simultaneously having a public record of praising Putin and getting financed by Russian oligarchs. This is a matter of public record and fact that is beyond dispute. Lastly, both houses of congress passed additional sanctions against Russian with super majorities, beyond veto proof and Trump refuses to enact them. We are living in a constitutional crisis and for some reason every move Trump makes seems to benefit Russia. This is not normal. This is not OK.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
sho 9y ago
You need to zoom way the hell out, or you will miss the forest for the trees. Whether or not Trump is personally racist or sexist or whatever is basically immaterial. The very fact of his election, and his continuing popularity despite events, is direct manifestation of deep-seated cultural problems in the USA. Simply dismissing the concerns of tens of millions of americans as "racist and sexist" is not helpful and in fact perpetuates the problem. I am not a Trump supporter, or a Thiel supporter, but it's not self-evidently bad that a person with some means chose to work with the guy in charge to try to make a difference. This kind of lazy dismissal is part of the problem.

justAnotherNET 9y ago

It’s a shame this even has to be said here.

sigmar 9y ago

While I'm not sure I'd use the word "absurd," arguing that "he won, so it couldn't be absurd to support him" doesn't make sense. Lots of demagogues win elections. Winning an election doesn't automatically make you ethical or competent.

shaftoe 9y ago
No, but it certainly makes you mainstream.
- evgen 9y ago
  Agreeing with 46% of the population is mainstream? Okay...
  - nl 9y ago
    Sure it is. No one claims driving a Honda Accord isn’t a mainstream choice just because they aren’t the number one selling car.
- alexqgb 9y ago
  Not if the election wasn't won with a majority.
  - PeterisP 9y ago
    Sure it is, if there's a 30%/70% split of viewpoints then the 30% viewpoint is a mainstream viewpoint as well, not some weird niche - it's also considered normal and conventional (though less popular than the 70% one), shared by a significant part of the people, known / acknowledged by almost everyone including the opponents.

gameswithgo 9y ago

I think it is.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

wz1000 9y ago

Supporting any US President of the last century or so is morally dubious(if you consider mass murder and toppling democratic regimes morally dubious). Like Chomsky likes to say, if US Presidents were held to the standards of the Nuremberg principles, they would all be executed. In that regard, Trump has so far done less harm than most recent Presidents. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BXtgq0Nhsc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BXtgq0Nhsc

askafriend 9y ago

Yes it is. When you support Trump, you support his vile brand of leadership. The majority in this the country do not support this man or his ideas. They simply don't. The base that supported him and made this presidency possible is collapsing by all reported metrics (as in they are literally dying off, and younger people neither support Trump's ideas nor are they as religious). So while Trump's base may have squeezed out a win last time, their chances of a repeat decrease significantly as time goes on. Time is not on their side, and I suspect History is not on their side either.

refurb 9y ago
Let me guess, you don't know any Trump supporters?
- dang 9y ago
  Please don't post unsubstantive swipes in discussions here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- askafriend 9y ago
  I've lived in the east coast, the west coast, the midwest, and the south all for extended periods in my life. I've lived in so many states in this country that I know intimately the diverse viewpoints and diverse culture that exists across America.
huangbong 9y ago
“The majority of the country does not support this man or his ideas”, says the liberal SF tech worker from the comfort of his/her Google office where all of his/her co-workers also blindly agree (except for Paul from Minneapolis, who secretly voted for and supports Trump, who would probably get fired by HR due to “poor performance” after coming out about it)
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]

makewavesnotwar 9y ago

Sure it is in the way Thiel did it. It was absurd for him to go on national television to make statements with 0 impact. Trump didn't win most places in the country Thiel might want to live. Trump lost on the entire west coast, Colorado and NY. He alienated himself and for what? He couldn't even help Trump win CA.