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I was just looking at a similar topic yesterday - trying to find a Wayland-compatible replacement to tools such as xdotool or xcape (see e.g. https://askubuntu.
by jcrben 9y ago
I was just looking at a similar topic yesterday - trying to find a Wayland-compatible replacement to tools such as xdotool or xcape (see e.g. https://askubuntu.com/questions/956640/equivalent-to-xdotool-for-wayland/977801#comment1630814_977801 https://askubuntu.com/questions/956640/equivalent-to-xdotool...).
People keep saying this was "decided" for security, but usually with no sources cited. I wasn't able to find a firm decision and discussion/roadmap. Instead it seems more like it was viewed as "handling this in a secure way is hard, let's skip trying to figure it out". Which is pretty sad, since as far as I can tell users didn't really get much in the way of tangible benefits from Wayland aside from security (altho the KWin maintainer points to Wayland being easier to test automatically https://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2018/01/kwinx11-is-feature-frozen/ https://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2018/01/kwinx11-is-fe...).
I found a RFC on a mailing list: [RFC] Interface for injection of input events (https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/wayland-devel/2017-March/033514.html https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/wayland-devel/2017-Ma...) where the xdotools maintainer chimed in with some thoughts. But it seems to have died quick.
I then scoured the Wayland freedesktop bugs (https://bugs.freedesktop.org/describecomponents.cgi?product=Wayland https://bugs.freedesktop.org/describecomponents.cgi?product=...) and one of the closest things I could find to a discussion of related issues was an open bug "Add an API for taking screenshots and recording screencasts" (https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98894 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98894) which has to deal with similar security challenges.
Ultimately I, along with other automation-minded folks, will be sticking with x11 until this is figured out. macOS also has a decent automation story, with tools like Hammerspoon, Automator, and so on.
I've got a fair bit of other notes on the topic which I can share with anyone interested - for example I saw "Some way to inject automated libinput events?" (https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=99800 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=99800) where the person was actually trying to tune a gamepad.
Also see https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/7bm9az/what_cant_be_done_on_wayland_still/ https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/7bm9az/what_cant_be_... where people are saying that Wayland is further fracturing the Linux desktop world.
- nly 9y agoThe problem is there is no common desktop permissions framework on Linux. On macOS a lot of these privileges (being able to inject and monitor input) are behind accessibility APIs and require the users express permission & password.
- navaati 9y ago> The problem is there is no common desktop permissions framework on Linux. Oh yes there is, it's called polkit and it's quite nifty !
- shmerl 9y agoYeah, combining security and automation is something that Wayland developers should solve in a serious way. It seems it's far from ready.
- eikenberry 9y agoA while back I looked into Wayland and what was missing that I would need to replicate my current setup. Here's the list I came up with... openbox - window management xinput - trackball/input configuration, disable touchpad xbindkeys setxkbmap - control/cap-lock manipulation redshift Xresources/xrdb - urxvt & general X settings xdotool - script-able window movement xclip/sselp - script-able copy-n-paste zenity - scripting gui things xset - dpms, screen blank, keyboard auto-repeat, mouse movement rate conky - system info dunst - notifications unclutter - no pointer xsslock/xtrlock - screenlock xrandr - display config urxvt - terminal/shell access Most of these had no Wayland equivalents that I could find. I have no plans on switching anytime soon.
- Sir_Cmpwn 9y agoMuch of this doesn't have a 1:1 equivalent tool, but is workable anyway. This comment got really long so I moved it into a gist: https://gist.github.com/SirCmpwn/594040cb476f93c503715d4635ba27f5 https://gist.github.com/SirCmpwn/594040cb476f93c503715d4635b...
- eikenberry 9y agoWow. Thanks for the detailed reply. I'll add that to my notes. I'm curious to see how this plays out with wlroots and how people will build on it to bring the something like variety of window manager X has to Wayland. Using Xwayland for a significant number of things makes me curious about how much overhead it adds. The only article I found was from 2014 and it showed it adding significant overhead. Anyone know of any newer data?
- shmerl 9y agoI don't think it should add a lot of overhead. Performance wise it shouldn't be any worse than regular X.
- eikenberry 9y agoThe article I mentioned in case you were curious. https://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=20956 https://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=20956