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No, I am not mistaking ACH for wire transfer, or any kind of "credit" system. If your bank is taking longer it's because your bank sucks. But yes please provid

No, I am not mistaking ACH for wire transfer, or any kind of "credit" system. If your bank is taking longer it's because your bank sucks. But yes please provide those "technical details" whenever you have a chance. https://www.frbservices.org/assets/financial-services/ach/091517-same-day-schedule.pdf https://www.frbservices.org/assets/financial-services/ach/09...

ad_hominem 9y ago
"... the ACH system never provides positive confirmation that an ACH debit has gone through successfully. The only response an ACH originator may get is one notifying them of a return. Because of this 'no news is good news' policy, it is wise for originators of ACH debits to wait for 3 additional business days of 'no news' to ship their product to the customer. Though the ACH system is described as a next-day settlement system, in practice, it is not because of this."[1] So your bank is being optimistic and giving you a credit, assuming that no return will happen. A pessimistic or cautious bank would really have to wait several business days to ensure no returns happen before crediting your account. [1]: https://engineering.gusto.com/how-ach-works-a-developer-perspective-part-3/ https://engineering.gusto.com/how-ach-works-a-developer-pers...
- tinokid 9y ago
  No! They are not being "optimistic," they are just following Regulation CC. Ask anyone on the street when they can get the money from their paycheck direct deposit. Unless they just opened their account, they are not waiting days.
  - jsjohnst 9y ago
    > Ask anyone on the street when they can get the money from their paycheck direct deposit. That’s because payroll isn’t sent the day of your payday. Go ask the person who handles payroll at the company you work for, they don’t submit it the day of payday (or even usually the day before). It’s normally submitted several days in advance.
    - tinokid 9y ago
      Again...no, it is not. You are confusing different things here. Even if they just learned about it the night before, your bank cannot withhold your direct deposit without breaking the law. Unless there is some special situation like a new account or they suspect fraud.
      - jsjohnst 9y ago
        > Again...no, it is not. You are confusing different things here. Not to get in a pissing match, but you are the one confusing unrelated things. There’s a reason I’m getting upvoted and you are being downvoted. 1) for credits, the RDFI doesn’t place holds on the funds (except in very unusual circumstances). So your apology here is flawed. 2) read the link provided by @ad_hominem, it very clearly and eloquently explains the time lines involved, by a company doing payroll. Better yet, read the whole series of posts they wrote. (Part 1/2 are linked at the top of the article). In general, try to understand that your personal experiences might not reflect the “way things work”. There are folks on HN who have generally “been there, done that, have battle scars to prove it” (like me in this specific case) for many topics and you’d be wise to keep an open mind rather than keep fighting against them when they are trying to help you understand.
        tinokid 9y ago
        No...the claim that ACH takes "3-5 business days", "several days", or whatever, is just flat out wrong. I can do ACH (not wire transfer, not "credit") between my totally unrelated bank accounts--whether those be at big banks or tiny little credit unions--with a total delay to myself, the end user, of about 14 hours and change. And that isn't new, it has been the case for well over a decade. And using ACH delays as an excuse for why people can't get money out of Bitcoin quickly-- the original context of this thread-- is completely disingenuous.
        jsjohnst 9y ago
        Your personal experience doesn’t mean it’s a fact. As I’ve stated multiple times and you keep ignoring, ideal case, it can take under 12hrs (almost all of my ACH transactions are that window too). That does not mean there aren’t significant amount of exceptions!
  - ad_hominem 9y ago
    Not sure why you got downvoted, I think you're right there. I misspoke when assuming that banks had much leeway in holding those funds (I'm not very familiar with banking regulations). However I still think it's accurate to not think of the funds as fully clearing for several days given the nature of the protocol, and that regulation simply forces the banks to be "optimistic" in giving a next-business-day credit.
    - jsjohnst 9y ago
      He’s being downvoted because he’s wrong and rather than replying directly to the points made, he tangents off on one small detail and still misses the narrative. Per Title 12 → Chapter II → Subchapter A → Part 229 → Subpart B → §229.10b(1), in general a bank shall make funds received for deposit in an account by an electronic payment available for withdrawal not later than the business day after the banking day on which the bank received the electronic payment. [0] So reading that there are several observations. - first, they say in general, emphasis theirs, and don’t define exceptions explicitly. - next business day, so that means they are perfectly allowed to be two days delay for a payment initiated by Wednesday night, or up to five days for one initiated Thursday night (Thursday send, Friday received but held, Monday being next business day). If Monday is a bank holiday, then it could even be six days! - in (2)(i) they further go on to state Payment in actually and finally collected funds. There are a number of reasons that could be delayed. Ultimately, saying an ACH should always be by next morning is just flat wrong and no amount of experience with your own personal transactions negates that. https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=b82e479da1df29eaa4aab825dccc3d3f&mc=true&node=se12.3.229_110&rgn=div8 https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=b82e479da1df29eaa4...

ad_hominem 9y ago

"... the ACH system never provides positive confirmation that an ACH debit has gone through successfully. The only response an ACH originator may get is one notifying them of a return. Because of this 'no news is good news' policy, it is wise for originators of ACH debits to wait for 3 additional business days of 'no news' to ship their product to the customer. Though the ACH system is described as a next-day settlement system, in practice, it is not because of this."[1] So your bank is being optimistic and giving you a credit, assuming that no return will happen. A pessimistic or cautious bank would really have to wait several business days to ensure no returns happen before crediting your account. [1]: https://engineering.gusto.com/how-ach-works-a-developer-perspective-part-3/ https://engineering.gusto.com/how-ach-works-a-developer-pers...

tinokid 9y ago
No! They are not being "optimistic," they are just following Regulation CC. Ask anyone on the street when they can get the money from their paycheck direct deposit. Unless they just opened their account, they are not waiting days.
- jsjohnst 9y ago
  > Ask anyone on the street when they can get the money from their paycheck direct deposit. That’s because payroll isn’t sent the day of your payday. Go ask the person who handles payroll at the company you work for, they don’t submit it the day of payday (or even usually the day before). It’s normally submitted several days in advance.
  - tinokid 9y ago
    Again...no, it is not. You are confusing different things here. Even if they just learned about it the night before, your bank cannot withhold your direct deposit without breaking the law. Unless there is some special situation like a new account or they suspect fraud.
    - jsjohnst 9y ago
      > Again...no, it is not. You are confusing different things here. Not to get in a pissing match, but you are the one confusing unrelated things. There’s a reason I’m getting upvoted and you are being downvoted. 1) for credits, the RDFI doesn’t place holds on the funds (except in very unusual circumstances). So your apology here is flawed. 2) read the link provided by @ad_hominem, it very clearly and eloquently explains the time lines involved, by a company doing payroll. Better yet, read the whole series of posts they wrote. (Part 1/2 are linked at the top of the article). In general, try to understand that your personal experiences might not reflect the “way things work”. There are folks on HN who have generally “been there, done that, have battle scars to prove it” (like me in this specific case) for many topics and you’d be wise to keep an open mind rather than keep fighting against them when they are trying to help you understand.
      - tinokid 9y ago
        No...the claim that ACH takes "3-5 business days", "several days", or whatever, is just flat out wrong. I can do ACH (not wire transfer, not "credit") between my totally unrelated bank accounts--whether those be at big banks or tiny little credit unions--with a total delay to myself, the end user, of about 14 hours and change. And that isn't new, it has been the case for well over a decade. And using ACH delays as an excuse for why people can't get money out of Bitcoin quickly-- the original context of this thread-- is completely disingenuous.
        jsjohnst 9y ago
        Your personal experience doesn’t mean it’s a fact. As I’ve stated multiple times and you keep ignoring, ideal case, it can take under 12hrs (almost all of my ACH transactions are that window too). That does not mean there aren’t significant amount of exceptions!
- ad_hominem 9y ago
  Not sure why you got downvoted, I think you're right there. I misspoke when assuming that banks had much leeway in holding those funds (I'm not very familiar with banking regulations). However I still think it's accurate to not think of the funds as fully clearing for several days given the nature of the protocol, and that regulation simply forces the banks to be "optimistic" in giving a next-business-day credit.
  - jsjohnst 9y ago
    He’s being downvoted because he’s wrong and rather than replying directly to the points made, he tangents off on one small detail and still misses the narrative. Per Title 12 → Chapter II → Subchapter A → Part 229 → Subpart B → §229.10b(1), in general a bank shall make funds received for deposit in an account by an electronic payment available for withdrawal not later than the business day after the banking day on which the bank received the electronic payment. [0] So reading that there are several observations. - first, they say in general, emphasis theirs, and don’t define exceptions explicitly. - next business day, so that means they are perfectly allowed to be two days delay for a payment initiated by Wednesday night, or up to five days for one initiated Thursday night (Thursday send, Friday received but held, Monday being next business day). If Monday is a bank holiday, then it could even be six days! - in (2)(i) they further go on to state Payment in actually and finally collected funds. There are a number of reasons that could be delayed. Ultimately, saying an ACH should always be by next morning is just flat wrong and no amount of experience with your own personal transactions negates that. https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=b82e479da1df29eaa4aab825dccc3d3f&mc=true&node=se12.3.229_110&rgn=div8 https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=b82e479da1df29eaa4...