> I'm complaining that the whole concept of lootboxes is predatory When there's no pay-to-win dynamic, it is literally the least predatory business model out o

> I'm complaining that the whole concept of lootboxes is predatory When there's no pay-to-win dynamic, it is literally the least predatory business model out of all games of that ilk. All of the alternatives for producing a recurring revenue stream, such as abandonware and direct PTW, are far more predatory. I don't actually think it's predatory at all, but you're complaining about the weakest possible conception of the problem (and even the alternatives you named are worse), which implies that you don't think the alternative models like abandonware are a problem. > I mean, this is objectively incorrect. League of Legends is not P2W, in that you can't buy your way to victory. You can get champions, but even the newest ones are not strictly better than earlier ones. The pressure to pay money in this case is to avoid grinding You are literally paying money for the chance at something that will impact your chances of victory, as opposed to something that is entirely superfluous to the gameplay in every way. That is the definition of pay-to-win, even if it's a less extreme form than most King games. If you don't see that as pressure to keep spending money, or if you don't see abandonware as a direct cash grab designed to exploit people's impulses, then I don't know how to continue this discussion.