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On the contrary, my Apple computers have lasted longer and have been more reliable than any other computers I've ever used. While my dad gets a new PC laptop s

On the contrary, my Apple computers have lasted longer and have been more reliable than any other computers I've ever used. While my dad gets a new PC laptop seemingly every 2 years, my Macbooks last 4-5 years easily while taking a whole lot of abuse. And since Apple products tend to hold their value really well, there's a thriving second-hand economy for these products that doesn't really exist for other manufactures. So older products get re-used by people looking for cheaper Macs or iPhones or whatever. One last point: no one really upgrades computers anymore, especially not laptops. Desktop computers are rare in the home now, and the people who are really spending a lot of effort into maintaining their desktop rigs are gamers and video professionals. Upgrading becomes a moot point when a system lasts as long as 5 years. By that time, there is far newer technology and upgrading is no longer worth it or feasible (newer motherboard types, incompatible RAM pins, etc). The best way to do good for the environment is to create a reliable product with sustainable materials that serves it's purpose for as long as possible and then continues to deliver value through re-use. That's exactly what they're doing and it's the smart way to do it - it becomes a natural part of the product lifecycle with no additional effort required from the customer. Yes Apple do highlight how "green" they are, and you can read their annual reports and decide for yourself if it's a deserved point of pride or not for them: https://www.apple.com/environment/ https://www.apple.com/environment/ I will say they are probably one of the more transparent manufacturers in the industry, with initiatives ranging from carbon neutral office buildings down to the material sciences level in their products.

qplex 9y ago
>The best way to do good for the environment is to create a reliable product with sustainable materials that serves it's purpose for as long as possible and then continues to deliver value through re-use. >That's exactly what they're doing No. Only a couple of days ago there was a NY Times article posted here on how the iPad has become obsolete just because the software isn't being updated anymore.
- coldtea 9y ago
  >Only a couple of days ago there was a NY Times article posted here on how the iPad has become obsolete just because the software isn't being updated anymore. Like with the WMDs, don't believe all you read on the NYTs. And generally, don't get your tech news from the mainstream press. The iPads that are left behind are those released before 2013 -- so like 5 years ago. And even those will still function just fine, just wont get any new updates. Now, consider how Android phones and tablets often don't even get an official update to the next version of Android than the one they came with for comparison...
  - qplex 9y ago
    If you are arguing for the environment it certainly does not make any sense that fully functional hardware becomes obsolete because of software. Android devices at least have the option for 3rd party software. No such luck with iDevices. Also it's not a fair to comparison between _all_ of the Android vendors in one bucket and Apple.
    - innagadadavida 9y ago
      You are being very creative with “obsolete”. I use an iPhone 4s and it is not obsolete by any means. It works just fine. Don’t blame the manufacturer if you want the latest shiny new gadget and expect all the bells and whistles to work on hardware >5yrs old.
      - qplex 9y ago
        Let me quote the article I referred to: >"My attempt to install an alternative browser ended with this message: Firefox requires iOS 10.3 or later." A Samsung Galaxy Tab 3 2013 - same age as that iPad - has Android 7.1 with all the latest bells and whistles (Firefox). I expect to upgrade to Android 8.0 (LineageOS 15) later this year. Edit: The author tried to install Firefox because Safari had become so slow it was unusable.
        coldtea 9y ago
        The hardware is not obsolete even without an "alternative browser".
- askafriend 9y ago
  The reason extremely old iOS devices (not just iPads) are not receiving OS support any longer is because iOS 11 switched to 64-bit architecture (dropping 32-bit support) and all apps written going forward will be compiled for 64 bit processor architectures. Apple is industry leading in terms of software support for their hardware. Which other manufacturer provides OS updates for 4+ years? Certainly not any of the Android OEMs. It's not as black and white as "it's supported" or "it's not supported". There's a lot of context around certain decisions that gets filtered out of articles like the one you're referring to.
  - throwaway2048 9y ago
    microsoft? linux distros? Lets not pretend ARM devices falling out of support isnt anything but OEM apathy, its not like the hardware suddenly stopped functioning.
  - qplex 9y ago
    For the end user it's black and white - can you run that app on your device or not? Android continues to run everything also on a 32-bit CPU and iOS does not.
michaelcampbell 9y ago
> my Apple computers have lasted longer and have been more reliable than any other computers I've ever used. And my Ubuntu boxes are running on 10 year old Dells. <shrug>
- valuearb 9y ago
  You probably don’t drop them often. Every dell laptop I’ve owned broke when dropped. Ive dropped the glue and aluminum MacBooks dozens of times and nothing ever broke.
  - michaelcampbell 9y ago
    I can't say I've dropped them at all. But maybe that's where we differ; I also don't EXPECT to, so I don't buy for that eventuality (dozens? really? Over 24 times!?).
    - valuearb 9y ago
      i use my laptops an average of 6-8 hours a day over 7 days a week. I pack them to go to work, unpack to work, disconnect to get to meetings, carry it back to reconnect, repack, unpack and setup at home, carry to the couch, pick up take to bed, etc. In two years that’s like 7,000 opportunities to drop it.
hedora 9y ago
This has been true in the past, but the tiny 27” monitor in this machine is already obsolete, and will be even more obsolete in a few years once the lcd replacements have matured. So, this model will be a $10k footrest / minitower by 2020.

qplex 9y ago

>The best way to do good for the environment is to create a reliable product with sustainable materials that serves it's purpose for as long as possible and then continues to deliver value through re-use. >That's exactly what they're doing No. Only a couple of days ago there was a NY Times article posted here on how the iPad has become obsolete just because the software isn't being updated anymore.

coldtea 9y ago
>Only a couple of days ago there was a NY Times article posted here on how the iPad has become obsolete just because the software isn't being updated anymore. Like with the WMDs, don't believe all you read on the NYTs. And generally, don't get your tech news from the mainstream press. The iPads that are left behind are those released before 2013 -- so like 5 years ago. And even those will still function just fine, just wont get any new updates. Now, consider how Android phones and tablets often don't even get an official update to the next version of Android than the one they came with for comparison...
- qplex 9y ago
  If you are arguing for the environment it certainly does not make any sense that fully functional hardware becomes obsolete because of software. Android devices at least have the option for 3rd party software. No such luck with iDevices. Also it's not a fair to comparison between _all_ of the Android vendors in one bucket and Apple.
  - innagadadavida 9y ago
    You are being very creative with “obsolete”. I use an iPhone 4s and it is not obsolete by any means. It works just fine. Don’t blame the manufacturer if you want the latest shiny new gadget and expect all the bells and whistles to work on hardware >5yrs old.
    - qplex 9y ago
      Let me quote the article I referred to: >"My attempt to install an alternative browser ended with this message: Firefox requires iOS 10.3 or later." A Samsung Galaxy Tab 3 2013 - same age as that iPad - has Android 7.1 with all the latest bells and whistles (Firefox). I expect to upgrade to Android 8.0 (LineageOS 15) later this year. Edit: The author tried to install Firefox because Safari had become so slow it was unusable.
      - coldtea 9y ago
        The hardware is not obsolete even without an "alternative browser".
askafriend 9y ago
The reason extremely old iOS devices (not just iPads) are not receiving OS support any longer is because iOS 11 switched to 64-bit architecture (dropping 32-bit support) and all apps written going forward will be compiled for 64 bit processor architectures. Apple is industry leading in terms of software support for their hardware. Which other manufacturer provides OS updates for 4+ years? Certainly not any of the Android OEMs. It's not as black and white as "it's supported" or "it's not supported". There's a lot of context around certain decisions that gets filtered out of articles like the one you're referring to.
- throwaway2048 9y ago
  microsoft? linux distros? Lets not pretend ARM devices falling out of support isnt anything but OEM apathy, its not like the hardware suddenly stopped functioning.
- qplex 9y ago
  For the end user it's black and white - can you run that app on your device or not? Android continues to run everything also on a 32-bit CPU and iOS does not.

michaelcampbell 9y ago

> my Apple computers have lasted longer and have been more reliable than any other computers I've ever used. And my Ubuntu boxes are running on 10 year old Dells. <shrug>

valuearb 9y ago
You probably don’t drop them often. Every dell laptop I’ve owned broke when dropped. Ive dropped the glue and aluminum MacBooks dozens of times and nothing ever broke.
- michaelcampbell 9y ago
  I can't say I've dropped them at all. But maybe that's where we differ; I also don't EXPECT to, so I don't buy for that eventuality (dozens? really? Over 24 times!?).
  - valuearb 9y ago
    i use my laptops an average of 6-8 hours a day over 7 days a week. I pack them to go to work, unpack to work, disconnect to get to meetings, carry it back to reconnect, repack, unpack and setup at home, carry to the couch, pick up take to bed, etc. In two years that’s like 7,000 opportunities to drop it.

hedora 9y ago

This has been true in the past, but the tiny 27” monitor in this machine is already obsolete, and will be even more obsolete in a few years once the lcd replacements have matured. So, this model will be a $10k footrest / minitower by 2020.