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This is a dangerous route to take, because at that point you can start comparing yourself to animals. We spent a few centuries developing our world, so I think

This is a dangerous route to take, because at that point you can start comparing yourself to animals. We spent a few centuries developing our world, so I think it's fair to assume higher standards. Animals kill other animals to solve their hunger and they do their best to end it quickly.

PeterisP 9y ago
"Animals kill other animals to solve their hunger and they do their best to end it quickly." is not entirely true. Many animals will start to eat others without bothering to kill them; non-carnivorous birds will peck each other (not particularly quickly) to death, dolphins do gang rape for fun while having the ability to understand what it means, they also kill things like porpoises for fun (they can't eat porpoises and they're neither a threat nor competition to dolphins); predators in good conditions do "surplus kill" i.e. kill just for practice/fun without attempting to eat the victim, apes have been observed to eat parts of other apes while they're still alive, etc, etc. The main difference between animals is that while less intelligent animals will sometimes simply kill things "just because" even if they don't need to and the suffering will be an accidental side effect, the more intelligent animals will sometimes intentionally hurt/torture others. Morality is orthogonal to intelligence. Romanticizing nature as something pure, "taking only what they need" and beyond evil is ridiculous idealism that doesn't reflect reality.
- deleted 9y ago
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chongli 9y ago
Animals kill other animals to solve their hunger and they do their best to end it quickly. Not always. Weasels and their relatives engage in surplus killing. Cats regularly play with their prey, clawing them and batting them around for fun, many times without even eating the dead prey animal. Dolphins are known to devour a shark's liver and leave the rest of the animal to sink, dying a slow death. Humans are animals. There's almost nothing we do that other predators don't. The difference is that we use technology as a force multiplier of overwhelming magnitude. There isn't much difference in kind, however.
- zer00eyz 9y ago
  > Dolphins are known to devour a shark's liver and leave the rest of the animal to sink, dying a slow death. Killer whales will do this to other whales as well (well liver and tongue) The caracas goes on to feed lots of other things however, and the cycle of life continues. And then there is this: https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18454-hippy-apes-caught-cannibalising-their-young/ https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18454-hippy-apes-caug...
jjeaff 9y ago
Hardly. Again, watch some National Geographic. You will see plenty of animals struggling as they are devoured alive. We raise chickens for eggs. A few times, Opossums or racoons have gotten into the pen. They will kill every single chicken and eat maybe one or two at most. Sometimes, they will even chew off a hen's leg or both and leave it alive.

PeterisP 9y ago

"Animals kill other animals to solve their hunger and they do their best to end it quickly." is not entirely true. Many animals will start to eat others without bothering to kill them; non-carnivorous birds will peck each other (not particularly quickly) to death, dolphins do gang rape for fun while having the ability to understand what it means, they also kill things like porpoises for fun (they can't eat porpoises and they're neither a threat nor competition to dolphins); predators in good conditions do "surplus kill" i.e. kill just for practice/fun without attempting to eat the victim, apes have been observed to eat parts of other apes while they're still alive, etc, etc. The main difference between animals is that while less intelligent animals will sometimes simply kill things "just because" even if they don't need to and the suffering will be an accidental side effect, the more intelligent animals will sometimes intentionally hurt/torture others. Morality is orthogonal to intelligence. Romanticizing nature as something pure, "taking only what they need" and beyond evil is ridiculous idealism that doesn't reflect reality.

deleted 9y ago
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chongli 9y ago

Animals kill other animals to solve their hunger and they do their best to end it quickly. Not always. Weasels and their relatives engage in surplus killing. Cats regularly play with their prey, clawing them and batting them around for fun, many times without even eating the dead prey animal. Dolphins are known to devour a shark's liver and leave the rest of the animal to sink, dying a slow death. Humans are animals. There's almost nothing we do that other predators don't. The difference is that we use technology as a force multiplier of overwhelming magnitude. There isn't much difference in kind, however.

zer00eyz 9y ago
> Dolphins are known to devour a shark's liver and leave the rest of the animal to sink, dying a slow death. Killer whales will do this to other whales as well (well liver and tongue) The caracas goes on to feed lots of other things however, and the cycle of life continues. And then there is this: https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18454-hippy-apes-caught-cannibalising-their-young/ https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18454-hippy-apes-caug...

jjeaff 9y ago

Hardly. Again, watch some National Geographic. You will see plenty of animals struggling as they are devoured alive. We raise chickens for eggs. A few times, Opossums or racoons have gotten into the pen. They will kill every single chicken and eat maybe one or two at most. Sometimes, they will even chew off a hen's leg or both and leave it alive.